tankhokie Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 just browsing the front projector sites and wanted to hear some thoughts. i am looking for a sub 2000 dollar front projector and the infocus x1 caught my eye. at around 900 dollars it is very nice in price, but oh the arguements over dsp vs lcd and contrast etc have driven me nuts. i am just looking for a 100 inch diagonal picture that is nice and makes me feel like i am at the movies. i don't need the perfect picture, just looking for a great picture without rainbows, etc. thoughts on this? it is late here and my "oh i'll just surf the net for a couple of minutes" has turned into a post 1am addiction. now i am worried that something as cheap as the x1 will not be enough... thanks for the input!!! oh extra points for telling me why bulbs are so expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancestorm Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Not sure how much I will be able to help you. I get most of my projector information from avsforum.com. However, the bulb issue. It's not really that bad. Most will get at least 2000 + hours on them and that would take several hours a day over several years to burn out. I can't find it, but there was a question about bulb expense on avs forum just a few weeks ago. The process of producing them is very tedious and there's much more into those bulbs than what we get for our ceilings from Home Depot... I have heard some good things about the X1. However most of the comments need to be taken with a grain of salt because most people who buy the X1 are really newbies to front projection. What I mean by that is that they are going to be floored by the sheer size of the picture and likely not able to find the things the more experienced videophiles will. If you want to avoid rainbows altogether, the best choice is to stick away from DLP. The hard part about this though is that DLP tends to project a better contrasted image than the LCD projectors. That's not to swipe at LCD because LCD is quickly getting up to the DLP level. Do you play a lot of video games or will have a lot of static images (like CNN logo in the corner, etc) on things that you watch? Or is this going to be a pure DVD projector? If it is pure DVD you might want to consider a used CRT since the burn-in problem would not be an issue for you. The DLP and LCD proj. do not have this sort of problem. Ask more questions! Do not be afraid of the reviews of the "experts" from other sites because the majority of these people nit-pick on the smallest of things that the average eye would not see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankhokie Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 lancestorm thanks, i have been looking on avsforum, just a ton of info there and it was late...overwhelmed me. i feel more at home here (if that makes sense) anyway, this projector is going to be 100% dvd -- not casual watching or p2 playing here. it will be in a room that is only dark at night, when we rent dvd's. i hadn't explored the crt projectors at all. the only one i have ever seen up close was a used college projector that was the size of a small pony...i am sure they are smaller now, so i may explore that option now. i am crt dumb so can't ask to many questions yet...the only fp experience i have is the time i hooked up a presentation epson (i think) 1200 lumen fp an threw a 96" diagonal on my wall (no screen, just textured plaster!) and i was in love. let me ask this, on crt's i hear the bad side is they need a lot of attention...is that in tweeking the lens/focus/color? are they on a slow decline of pic quality so that you keep adjusting them? thanks, off to do some reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 tank - Going thru the same process myself, and like you my "just a quick surf" turned into a late one last night on AVS Forum. If you want to avoid DLP "rainbow" issues, consider the Panasonic LT-300U. It will be selling fairly cheaply as Christmas approaches, I believe, with the recent new product announcements (and it was under $2000 anyway). Also consider your room size, and where the PJ will be in relation to your chair -- got to be aware of fan noise issues as well as venting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I've only been to the avs forum a couple of times, but I visit projectorcentral.com at least once a week. And it's at Projector Central that I've gotten most of my info/education. Like you tank, I'm trying to get clear in my mind what I not only want to spend, but what type of projector - DLP or LCD. At this point, I'm leaning very strongly towards LCD because I've viewed a DLP machine and did notice the so called rainbow effect. Now, if you go with a 6x speed or greater DLP unit, the rainbow effect goes away. However, those projectors are in the $5K plus category. FWIW, I've seen one of the new generation LCD projectors (a Yamaha LPX-500) and can tell you that brightness & contrast are not a problem. Anyhow.... If you're not in a hurry, the new Sanyo PLV-Z2 is suppose to be quite a performer. And it's price is suppose to be below $2K. Personally, I'd love to buy a Sanyo PLV-70. It's a killer projector and I've gotten confirmed prices of around $4400 delivered. BTW...Projector Central has a "get bids" service. You may wanna give that a shot. Tom Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Klipsch Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I just put in a Dell HDDLP projector and screen for a friend of mine in his new Cajun bar for $1100 I got off of ebay and the picture is unreal. It is just hooked up to the standard Motorola cable box and the picture is spectacular. The cable co.(TW) is delivering the HD box today so I am heading down there to set it up. It has S video,composite, component inputs. You can see scan lines right now at about 5 ft. but from 10 ft. you hardly see any. I am sure there are better projectors but check this one out. Crawfish Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 we are selling through the remaining sony vpl-hs10 wxga 16:9 hd-compatable lcd projectors in stock for $2,400($3k retail) i have had mine for almost a year. dvd and analog sources look very nice, hd broadcasts are AWESOME!! this pj really outshines others in this price catagory,especially with hd content as its resolution is 1366x768, not 1024x768 like many are. avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I'm glad AVMan spoke up, with his perspective on the Sony. More and more users on this forum are going the front projector route. I for one have a Sanyo PLV-Z1. I love it, but projectors are not for everyone!!! You must ask yourself a few questions first. 1) For 100" diagonal (87" width), how far are you going to sit from the screen? The closer to the screen the higher the probability that you will see the pixel structure of the projector. This effect, aka "Screendoor", is much less with DLPs that with LCDs. With a low resolution projector (X1 or Z1) if you sit about 2 times the width away you are "ok", but its highly dependent on how picky you are. 2) Is your room COMPLETELY light controlled? At 100" diagonal, the actual brightness of the screen might be fairly low and depends on the TRUE brightness of the projector, not the crap numbers they publish as lumen output. Figure that the real output (after calibration) is about 1/2 the published value. 3) Upgrades? Do you plan on the upgrade little and often or when the projector dies? 4) HTPC is almost a must! When blowing up DVDs to the big screen you will be amazed and pissed all at the same time. Some DVDs look fantastic (Superbit, LoTR:EE) and others look like CRAP! Its all depends on the mastering process, if it is well done you won't notice many/any MPEG compression artifacts. I have seen some DVDs that I almost couldn't watch, and just because its a recent release doesn't guarantee quality mastering. I have a cheap DVD (Denon DVD-1000) and when using the component output to the PLV-Z1 the image looks VERY soft (kinda like the StarWars:Episode 2 DVD, but with LoTR:EE and 5th Element). Toss that same DVD into my HTPC (via VGA) the image is crystal clear and sharp. The HTPC is setup to output the native resolution of the projector (960x540) and my cheap video card is MUCH better at scaling then the Z1's scalers. For projectors, I believe that feeding the native resolution of the projector is probably the most important item you could do to improve image quality, short of calibration. Also, there are PC programs that can filter manipulate the DVD image to improve the image, especially when you see MPEG compression artifacts. 5) Get HDTV....holy cow does it look good!!!! 6) 4:3 or 16:9 screen size....HUGE question...but since you are using it for only DVD...GET THE 16:9!!!! Someone mentioned the Yamaha LPX-500, that is not a "current" projector, ie, its one generation old and the same generation class as the Sanyo PLV-Z1. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO1 Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 If you are looking for the best cheap projector go see an X1 or any 2x DLP projector and if you don't see the rainbow effect buy the X1. Great PQ in the budget price range combined with a 4000hr bulb and Faroudja DCDi processing makes the X1 a no brainer. IMHO the next best cheap projectors are the Sanyo Z1 & Panasonic L300 LCD projectors so they're the ones to get if rainbows bother you. The HS10 mentioned by avman is also a great projector and that is a decent price for it though the street prices for the Sanyo and Panasonic should be cheaper. It had some trouble when they first came out but I haven't heard much lately and given the fact that it is a WXGA projector the extra cash is worth it especially over the Sanyo and Panasonic. I prefer DLP to LCD but I don't have a problem with rainbows. I used to see them occasionally but now its rare. I currently have 2 DLP projectors and out of at least 60-70 people that have viewed them no one has ever complained or been able to see rainbows without my assistance. I usually have to get them to look away and back quickly with a bright on dark image just so they are able to see it for a millisecond and know what I'm talking about. I think some people have a real problem with the rainbow issue but I think they are rare as I have never personally met one. If you saw a rainbow that does not mean you have a problem with DLP, its if you saw a bunch of rainbows most of the time that would indicate the need for a higher speed color wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 I have been looking for a Plasma for some time. While visiting hometheaterforum.com I discovered their Deals forum. The offers are driven by www.gotapex.com . Thru that forum I was able to ****** a panny 42" 6Y plasma display with overnight shipping for $2680 from Dell. That is just one example of the thing you find there. Another one was the INFocus X1 for $799 free ship and no tax again from Dell. If you are serious about it and are have a little time to wait for the right one I would highly recommend taking a look at htis site. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 ---------------- On 11/7/2003 1:24:35 AM tankhokie wrote: oh extra points for telling me why bulbs are so expensive ---------------- Same reson why they charge $60 for a color cartridge for a printer, because they can and they know damn well you will need to replace it sooner than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabulousfrankie Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Can someone tell me what the rainbow effect is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 However, DLP projectors do have drawbacks. First: Just as with LCD, each DLP chip has a finite number of pixels. Second: Although DLP projetors don't exhibit the "screen door" effect of many LCD units, it can exhibit what is referred to as "the rainbow effect". Basically, the "rainbow effect" is exhibited by a brief flash of colors (like a small rainbow) when the viewer rapidly looks from side to side on the screen or looks rapidly from the screen to side of the room. Fortunately, this does not occur frequently and many people do not have sensitivity to this effect at all. Third: Just as in LCD projectors, the light source must be changed every 1,000 to 2,000 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 "Can someone tell me what the rainbow effect is."You are seized with an uncontrollable urge to sing like Judy Garland in The Wizard of Oz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 I just purchased the X1 myself and absolutely love it. I'm sure that this machine has a number of flaws that the experienced viewer would notice that I do not. However, I am not an experienced viewer and just love the picture that the X1 displays. I am able to see a bit of the "screen-door" effect, but I am sitting a bit closer to the screen than the average viewer. I am running the X1 through my (don't laugh) PS2 with S-video cable onto a Da-Lite Insta-Theater screen (80"-which is grey and a 2.2 gain). This machine is ideal for me-a newbie to home theater on a limited budget for now. (I'm a bit drained after my recent RF-7, RC-7 and RSW-15 purchase.) There is some really good information on the projector central website that should be helpful to you. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Killer thread guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 dkp - what screen size are you watching and how far are you sitting from it when you see the screen door? dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CO1 Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 dkp, make sure you have the latest firmware for the 4000hr bulb life. If not the counter will only let you go to 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankhokie Posted November 10, 2003 Author Share Posted November 10, 2003 hey thanks guys, this has been a wealth of knowledge that i am going to start researching... right now, i am leaning to a 16x9 lcd. i have read good stuff about the sony hg10?? (the one avman mentioned) and kinda like the higher resolution, almost to the point of willing to shell out the extra bucks to get more lines of resolution. right now in this house, i would sit about 15ft from the screen. i ran an epson presentation type projector that was around $2500 (way bright ) just for fun when i had it from my boss and i noticed the screen door about 6ft away, but during the movie, never noticed it. i just know i loved that 96" diagonal star wars 2, once you get one in home, you will never turn back...that was my mistake so here is a question, i am going to only run a dvd player to it via component wires. my dvd player has progressive scan on it but i have never used it as it is currently hooked up to a base model tube tv. is this right-to use progressive scan, you need a high def tv/projector? or just one that has a higher resolution to support it like the sony h10? or is that all one in the same...still an unclear part for me. thanks again for a great response! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 To use a progressive signal, your tv/monitor/projector/whathaveyou must support a line density ending with a "p," as in 480p, 720p. Those that end in "i" are interlaced, as in 480i, 1080i. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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