rtaylor Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 A good friend of mine had asked me to help him build a 2 channel system from scratch. It is beyond me why he trusts my ears but let's lay that bone aside. There are plenty of opinions that I listen to, please don't feel that your input is not important. What I'd like to hear from you fellow KNUTS is your opinion on (NEW) and slightly used equipment. He is not interested in old which does limit his choices. (1) 2001 K-horns (2) 18 X 27 x 10 room (3) Rock, Blues (4) Can get real LOUD (crazy loud, no sets here and no offense intended!) (5) 2 channel (6) $10,000.00 american (7) Preamp, amp, digital front end These are the basics, the system that he fell in love with with consisted of my gear at the time: MC-60's, Counterpoint 7.0 and an old RCA CD or my current album playing gear. No need for albums here, just a line stage pre, an amp and a multi-format 5 inch disc player. Not a changer. If he only wanted vintage it would be easier for me to at least make some suggestions but as it is he wants only new gear. I'm at a loss. If any of you have any and I mean any ideas you could send my way I thank you, Randy I've modified this post to represent the truth as it is at this time. No names were used to protect the innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Would he take USED gear that is not vintage? This opens up some options. In other words, do you mean NEW literally speaking? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Randy, Craig NOSValves here ! I'll custom build him what ever he want's Amp wise ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 Would he take USED gear that is not vintage? This opens up some options. In other words, do you mean NEW literally speaking? kh No Kelly, only new gear. I know he's limiting himself but it's his way. So if you have any ideas that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 Randy, Craig NOSValves here ! I'll custom build him what ever he want's Amp wise ! Hey Craig. Are you guys having a good time over Pauls? Blow anything up? Tried to? I appreciate your offer and will pass it on to Kevin but I think he wants store bought. Randy Paul, I live in cincinnati if you ever down this way. Are you in columbus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 Would he take USED gear that is not vintage? This opens up some options. In other words, do you mean NEW literally speaking? kh No Kelly, only new gear. I know he's limiting himself but it's his way. So if you have any ideas that would be great. Kelly, just got off the phone and he is willing to go with used after all, but they have to be like new. I also changed the first post, he's using his K-horns and not his Lascalas at his new home.He's in the process of moving. He also owns two pair of KL-30's and a pair of KL-20's. Lots of toys! He has been using a Genesis(sp?) digital front end with a piece of equipment called a Uther(sp?),an aragon pre, an antham pre and amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 rtaylor, I noticed he has Aragon Pre in your listing, since he already has this and I am assuming he likes this, Why don't you get more Aragon? With his budget- it should be no problem. Maybe something like the Aragon 2002 2 Channel Amplifier.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 Hey Bill, thanks for your reply. Does Aragon make tube gear? He wants tubes in his new setup. That doesn't mean everything has to be tubed but I need to bring them in somewhere. IMO a tube pre would be the best starting place. On the digital player I believe it would be the least important place to have tubes with the amplifier being in the middle. Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 rtaylor, I don't believe Aragon is into tube gear. For more tube information email , contract Craig (NOS VALVES), about this...........also Gary MD ....................good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 If the guy really wants nice new stuff why not set him up with a new Cary pre and new Welborne DRD monoblocks? If he wants to make adjustments after that he'll be in a good position, that stuff is eminently sellable/tradeable. I guess this would be provided he's got something burning a hole in his pocket.... Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Tom, I think this guy would be in the 6550/kt88 camp of amps. Go to audiogon check out whats available. I've had great results shopping audiogon, that crowd keeps there stuff nice. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I dunno man. I have my KHorns in a room with similar L x W, but mine has one mostly open side, the ceiling starts at 9ft on the closed side, goes to like 23 feet on the open side over stairs, loft, archway into kitchen and whatnot. My HF-81 is hooked up to them, last night I was cranking it up, it was hitting over 110DB @ 1 meter. This means it was pegging the RS digital display meter set on the 90-110 range. Pretty freaking loud. Lots of room left on the vol knob. I have a hard time envisioning anybody staying the room very long without turning it down some. I should have hooked a DVOM to speaker terminals to see what kind of wattage is actually being used. These are 16 ohm Khorns hooked up to the 16 ohm taps. what does it take, 5-6 watts? 300b will make 8 watts, ard for me to figure it not being enough. I'll bet he wouldn't leave it turned up all the way very long. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Don't forget to allow at least $3,000.00 for a servo controled sub like the Velodyne HGS 18, or maybe the Martin Logan Descent. I know a lot is said about the SVS subs, but for two channel I would go for the cleanest sound possible. For that you need the control of a servo. I'm also a BLUES $ Rock fan, don't skimp on the amplifier power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Tom, have your tried hooking it to the 8ohm taps just to see how it partners sonically? I bet you the Khorns end up dropping below 16ohms so the 8ohm taps might be at least worth a try. I am with you on the wattage thing. Right now, I believe it is the biggest misconception on this forum, even with guys that have low watt amps. While we have measurements and meters coming out to play, everything I have experienced says that it really depends on the room, setup, music etc. And beyond the obvious ie a 45 SET on 93dB speakers, you REALLY need to test it as no preconceptions apply. In addition, I have found low watt amps with better more developed micro dynamics than high watt samples. Dynamics is REALLY the ability to go from soft to lound passages..and the MOST IMPORTANT is the CONTRAST instead of ultimate loudness. I have literally now just given up on WHAT SHOULD or SHOULDNT work and believe in trying it out as the preconceived notions have been defeated so many times in my experience, that things just cant be ruled out. I think classical has the most vivid and largest dynamic contrasts of any of the formats with most rock coming in last. While loud, it has far less contrast. I am not a fan of subs although many here are. And I really dont see high power as needed as much as HIGH QUALITY. But there is something to be said for a big push-pull tube amp in the lower mid drive. That is one of the biggest positives. In other areas, I find them second tier, but this is personal opinion and my experience. Thinking for some good amp/preamp recs today. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Craig has been putting on a clinic over here -- and there is no way any self respecting audiophile should be using less than 30 watts with Heritage. Though my Canary has a gorgeous sound, when driven to full output with the scope hooked up -- the bass completely falls through the floor 100Hz and below. What prompted us to do the tests was the HUGE discrepancy between the amps we have here -- in presence, impact, and authority to get the room loaded to produce a realistic presention of the various material. Basically, my lower powered beauty goes into pure distortion when called upon to deliver the low frequency goods. The bass is there -- but it sure isn't "clean". So friends -- buy those SET amps if you like to slump into a chair with a half bottle of wine and 70db -- unless of course you enjoy the sound of compression and distortion -- then turn it up! This has been a very enlightening weekend so far. BTW -- anyone know where I can find a nice set of LaScalas? Yes -- eating crow again. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I thought Mr. Parrot had Khorns as in avatar? What does "loading the room up" mean over there? And what material were you playing? I can do an audition that favors either topology depending on material, room, and volume and mission. Was there audition emphasis and exploration put on what your amps DID do well? It's too bad you didnt have a low power SET to see what the difference is in reproduction with their limits. There IS a definite difference in the reproduction in my experience. So the outcome is that the Mark III amps do the micro dynamics with the same quality as the 300b PP? I would have loved to participate if I lived in the area. kh ps - one can sign out and sign in under his OWN screen name. It takes about 10 seconds. pps - Would like to see the pics of the setup and amps on hand. Dean, you bring your digital? ppps - This is not meant to start a typical flame war. See if it can be kept above board. I will be interested in conditons, setup, music, and goals. Would love some pics of room and gear (and you three). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 10000 USD should get him a used integrated Tenor Audio 75W. Hard to beat if he wants to go crazy loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 ---------------- Though my Canary has a gorgeous sound, when driven to full output with the scope hooked up -- the bass completely falls through the floor 100Hz and below. What prompted us to do the tests was the HUGE discrepancy between the amps we have here -- in presence, impact, and authority to get the room loaded to produce a realistic presention of the various material. Basically, my lower powered beauty goes into pure distortion when called upon to deliver the low frequency goods. The bass is there -- but it sure isn't "clean". Dean ---------------- Remember I once told you I wasn't impressed with the phase splitting driver configuration for the Canary. Chances are it does give up much before your output section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 BTW -- anyone know where I can find a nice set of LaScalas? Yes -- eating crow again. Dean Hey Dean, remember when I commented "if you only knew what you were missing", now ya do. Oh, don't forget to add the Mark III's to the mix, OH YAA!! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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