Erik Mandaville Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Here's the whole thing with separate power supply, SS rectified, of course. The whole thing was very inexpensive to make and sounds good -- but won't win any aesthetics awards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Do you think you could make one that actually used Xmas tree lights for amplification? I've got a lot of strings of them, so if you supply the design, I'll supply the lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Looks better than a lot of things I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 How cool is that?! Thanks, Paul. As we've talked about, I need to work on a better front end. I could have done pretty well with what we put towards the Klipschorns, but just thought we should go ahead and get them while they were available -- and more than that, close to home to save money on shipping costs! You all have a really nice house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Thanks, Paul. A little tutelage in MS Paint might is in order, n'est pas? Heck, if one can build a preamp, one can do a little image editing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I agree. I've said that much about myself many times. I've spent more time with constructing and building than with image editing (or image anything!)...but I'm learning, however slowly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Dean, Craig, Mr.Parrot, Based on the description of events, it seems a good time was had by all. Mr. Parrot has a nice sized room, and a well appointed one, no doubt. My compliments. It has sent me to the measuring tape and some quick findings on my part. My Khorns are located in a room that is smaller, but not that much smaller than Mt Parrot's. 25+X18+x18+ ceiling. I have less sound absorbing furniture, and accouticlly it's a very solid room. I'm definitely not a head banger of any sort, but for the sake of information I decided to increase the volume for some room loading reference information. The architecture style is not that unusual here. I'm not trying to convince any of you to go SET. I know where all of you stand. It is however an effort to provide some perspective on room size and watts. I got out the Rat Shack meter, and cranked things up to the 90db level of peaks. Now this is WAY too loud for my taste, but for the sake of trying to determine if the Moondogs will go belly up, I did it. The LP "Four in One", has extensive upright bass playing by Buster Williams, and no problems reproducing this instrument or the rest of the quartet. Played some Miles, and the new CD C&S recommended which just arrived, "Ezz-thetics". Thanks C&S, great music, Russell, Dolphy, and the rest of the sextet sounds great. Believe me, the Moondogs at 3.5 watts per channel CAN load the room. No chicken bones in sight. Now my question for Mr. Parrot. Please recommend a classical CD that I can purchase as a dynamic reference. I do not promise to attempt to achieve levels much higher than the 90+db that I already consider threatening to good neighbor relationships, but I want to know for myself and I'll report back. Believe me, I will not just "say anything" for the sake of being right. My last question for Mr. Parrot, which Sam Cook album did you play? He was my cousin and had a fantastic voice. He died way too young, for doing something stupid. Dean, I've been told from corresponding with other SLP98 owners that non remote units sound better, but I can't say for sure. I think you should consider the Cary type upgrades before throwing it away. Which 6SN7s are you using? My Cary is sounding better than ever with some tube rolling in the cathode positions. Thanks go to Wes on that. Looking forward to the classical CD recommendation. I already have long hair. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Hi Jazman, It seems that the main difference is that we weren't satisfied with around 90dB for peaks. Our biggest peaks were more on the order of 106dB. According to what Klipsch has in their Dope from Hope papers, SPL meters are not fast enough to register instantaneously, and they suggest that another 12dB added to what the meter registers is probably what is really happening. I don't know if meters back then were any slower than what they have now. I do know that Craig's digital display meter registered no higher than my analog needle one. If adding 12dB is a good idea, then you can see that much more amplifier power is needed than one might initially think, plus this was at 15 feet away. The Sam Cooke I played was Sam Cooke at the Copa, recorded live in NYC July 7 and 8, 1964. This is one of ABKCO's recent SACD/CD hybrid issues. He does have an astounding voice and a lot of his personality comes through in this live CD. His death was a tragedy, for sure. For a dynamic classical CD, I'd recommend Mahler Symphony No. 6, conducted by Benjamin Zander, on Telarc. It is hybrid SACD/CD, and is on three discs for the price of one. The third disc is a CD only of Zander providing insightful commentary on the piece. Another possibility is Mahler Symphony No. 10, conducted by Mark Wigglesworth, on the BBC Music label. It was available only by subscription but it comes up on eBay from time to time. I got mine at Goodwill for $1.99. I would rate both A+. The Wigglesworth is a totally live performance. The Zander is live but without an audience. I typically don't play anything louder than what it would be if the artists were performing it in person for me. A cello should be as loud as a cello is played here, in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Jazzman, I will have to commend you that was a very pleasant post and I really hope that we can become some what civil to each other again. I realize that we will probably never see eye to eye. But I can accept that if you can ! Paul, One thing about what Jazzman is doing with the music he likes and I am not all that familiar with what he listed so I could be wrong. But I bet the Dynamic range is not all that great. So when he pushes it to say 90Db peaks his steady dB might not be all much less then the peaks ? Jazzman is the case ! Also I truly believe that the music that many here listen too with 3.5 watts just doesn't really need as much reserve power as we were using with Symphony Orchestra and Rock and Roll. Much of the mild Jazz and what not doesn't sound good loud anyway. Look at Diana Krall we were listening to I bet we never used over 2 watts with that music even in your room. I think she sounds much better at low volumes for the most part anyway. My biggest problem for ME ! With low watt amps is they somewhat have to lesson the quality of some types of music and when your a guy like me that likes all types your system has to play it all very well this takes some Watts to achieve it in a realistic manor. Craig<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Eric, I think that little line stage looks great ! Simple and functional nothing wrong with that ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 What the "F" is "mild jazz?" Jeesh . . . I was just listening to Cannonball WAIL a few minutes ago and got out the old SPL for the hell of it. 92 db avg, 99db peaks. And this was FRIGGIN LOUD!!! Acoustic? YES! Mild? NO EFFING WAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Parrot, Believe it or not, I will look for one of those CDs. BTW, I can say that at 25 ft away, there was no loss of dynamics. I'm not sure what kind of ears you folks have to think listening at those levels are reproducing the actual event other than an overbaked rock concerts. At 106db, with most equipment, at most venues, you're listening to distortion, not music. Of course, I know many will diagree with that statement. It's unfortunate that many think that Jazz is not dynamiclly challenging. Getting the sound of the piano correct is a tremedous challange for any system. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Allan, I would say by the name alone that Cannonball Wail is not what I would call mild Jazz So tell me you think all jazz has these types of peaks ? Also your not playing it on a 3 watt amp I bet if it was played on a 3 watter your old SLP meter wouldn't be so active ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I can see right now this thread is going down hill from here ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Paul, I don't know if you have reached audio nirvana, but methinks you are well on the road to Shambala. Lest you think I reside in the SET end of the universe, I was listening to five hours of music today at over 120 dB slow weighted on an Audiometrix cal'd meter. I was painting upstairs, and I had the front door open. When the mailman came by, he stopped for ten minutes to listen to Midnight Oil. He actually had the nerve to try to schedule another listen for tomorrow I can remember back about '75 when the Led Zep bio "Thunder of the Gods" came out. They should have had a photo of a Khorn on the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 ---------------- On 12/1/2003 10:37:27 PM jazman wrote: Getting the sound of the piano correct is a tremedous challange for any system. ---------------- How true, Jazman. Thanks, Sheltie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Craig, I suggest you refer to Allans post above as far as "mild Jazz" goes. Jazz if nothing else, it's dynamic, and almost impossible to veil accoustic musical truth. As for a "pleasant post." I simply responded to the post. Don't expect I will ignore bull**** statements with no fact or logic you may post, or for that matter anyone else. for instance, your vague statement "when your a guy like me that likes all types your system has to play it all very well this takes some Watts to achieve it in a realistic mannor." Here's where I think you, Parrot, and others are missing the boat. I only have one CD with a few songs by Ms. Krall. Have you ever heard the Charles Mingus band, Duke Ellingtons Band, Count Basie's, Wood Herman's, Quincy Jones, Thad Jones/Mel Lewis? I could go on, but without you actually experiencing it, you'll never believe me. Again, I am not expecting you to get SET fever, just stop making false, uninformed statements and assumtions about SET amps. Klipsch out. PS. Again you are so wrong. "Also your not playing it on a 3 watt amp I bet if it was played on a 3 watter your old SLP meter wouldn't be so active ! May I quote PWK "BULL****". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Yes you can quote Paul Klipsch as long as its in context. No I am not a Jazz expert! Never said I was and probably never will be! I would love to have a way to sample more of this Jazz you guys rave about so much and have visited my local used record shops with list you and others have posted here and there is none to be found. I hate to spend too much on a genre of music I'm not sure I would like! But I am very curious! Sooner or later this will all be compared head to head between the Push Pull and SET products its just bound to happen. But even if SET is capable of handle ling it in a dynamic and real life fashion obviously so can push pull. I trust Allan comments and he is using 30 watts of push pull. Wolfram is currently raving about his 30 watts of push pull. I see a trend maybe coming on here! Push pull can be very Delicate and Dynamic at the same time. Its all up to the ear of the beholder anyway! If you like what you have then that is great! Craig<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 "Push pull can be very Delicate and Dynamic at the same time" IMO, PP can never sound as good as a SET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 PP can never sound as good as a SET. HUH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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