mtber101 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 How would these two compare in a two channel system? What are the advantages of each? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 RF-7s fit in my house, and after a lot of crossover rework do violins and sometimes small chamber ensembles better. KHorns don't fit in my house, usually require some crossover rework, and do everything else better. Much more dynamic. Both speakers require very high quality amplification that is usually derived from customized tube amps. Both speakers require corner placement. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Well, that pretty much sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 CAN you compare them? A 2-way primarily cone-based speaker with horn tweeter, versus a 3-way fully horn-loaded design? Not trying to sound antagonistic at all, but I'd put them in completely different leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Are you both saying that RF-7s HAVE to be in the corners? I thought the RF-7 could be brought away from the Corner bounderies? It was one of the positive aspects of the speaker compared to say a Klipshorn which was designed for corner use. Then again, one is leaving out the idea of false corners which others have used successfully in giving the Klipschorns some mobility and flexibility. I have heard Cornwalls out into the room and prefer some of the charachteristics ie more depth and bass definition if not ultimate deepness. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Of course you can compare big ole horns to the Reference series, even conventional or exotic loudspeakers. You can compare any apple to any orange. The classic Klipsch corner Khorns date from the 50s and the design has barely changed since then. They are huge in size: the biggest home loudspeakers I have seen. They have a difficult WAF for a mere background sound system: impossible for a five speaker HT system. Classic Klipsch corner Khorns are awesome in sensitivity and efficiency, measuring an incredible 104dB per watt per meter: comparable only to such rare loudspeakers as Advantgarde Acoustic Trios and Classic Audio Reproductions (which do not have a large, successful resale marketyet). Khorns are extremely revealing in details. Not just the textures of the singer and instruments, but also the nuances of the front-end electronics. They are effortless driven by the weakest power sources. Mere boom boxes can show off what classic Khorns are capable of (I know, I hooked one up to my walnut-oiled Cornwall 1s, with their B2 crossovers). They are efficient enough to be driven by low-powered single ended triode (SET) amplifiers, with their sweet and delicate mid-range and treble sound. Low cost vintage tube or solid-state amplifiers are all you need to get them close to their fullest potential. The soundstage is huge, reaching across the entire width of normal size rooms, but it is also shallow. Stuck in the room corners, the classic Klipsch corner horns do not have a large footprint, but neither do they have a deep soundstage either. Purists will want their conventional loudspeakers two to four feet away from front at side walls. This takes up floor space and creates a big footprint. Khorn owners must settle for their speaker in the corner or in front of false walls. The Khorns take up little floor space, hide in the corner and have little footprint. They have amazing imaging capability, even with vintage amplifiers. The huge soundstage allows room for instruments to stand apart and sound uncluttered, uncongested and free to play on their own. Separation between instruments is therefore great. They have amazing clarity. Perhaps too crisp and clear for many tastes. Vocals float effortlessly and naturally. Loud volumes do not sound congested or crowded or strained. The classic Klipsch corner Khorn bass is lean and deep. It reaches down to 30Hz. This depth transcends all music range, reaching up into the mid-range with a pleasing evenness and tonal balance. It is not punchy in the mid-bass region (60 to 120Hz). Frequency response is fairly flat across the entire spectrum. Bass integrates extremely well with the mid-range. It more closely resembles acoustic bass than any other speaker I have heard (except for a few superlative money-is-no-object dream systems). They require a change of mind set a whole new way of looking at audio box stores and what the conventional speaker-amplifier relationship is. They love tubes. Used big ole horns are a bargain in audio. They make music. The bigger, the better. They are huge, vibrant, brassy, loud, dynamic, fast, clear, efficient, focused and detailed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtber101 Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 Thanks for the info guys. Colin that is what i wanted to hear. thanks Now for a two channel system which speakers should i go with? I'm looking more at the khorn. They sound like they can give me more. So when i want to upgrade to surround sound (money and need a place to put it) would the khorn match with the reference 7 series? Or should i stay in the heritage family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 The decision of whether or not to go with K-Horns versus the RF-7 is as much of a lifestyle choice than it is anything else. The ability of the K-horn to render outstanding results when set up correctly is almost a given. The ability of the average person to comfortably LIVE WITH K-horns is as much a part of the buy decision as how the speakers perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I have never heard any Ref speakers. Bear that in mind. The Klipschorn can be expanded upon for multichannel use with several other Heritage series models. Fully horn loaded, yet smaller options for rear and center placement would include the Lascala and Belle Klipsch. The Cornwall and Heresy models have direct radiating woofers, and it might be argued that they would not integrate quite as well as the (albeit more expensive) Belle and Lascala. The Lascala would be my first choice to add to Klipschorns for multi-ch use, as they use the same squawker and tweeter as the Khorn. The Belle uses a bit smaller mid-range horn. If you are serious about multi-ch, I would suggest purchasing the Khorns in a veneer that is available in the other models as well, otherwise you may have a veneer job to make things match (if that matters). Purchased used, the Heritage series represents what I consider one of the best values available. This is not to the exclusion of other products (like the Reference line), but they are also somewhat unique in appearance and do offer an extra touch of class, no matter what my wife says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Heckuva post there, Colin! Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Kelly, I found that with the RF-7s in corners (I had to create a small low wall for one) the cones do a much better job of keeping up with the dynamics of the horn. The lower midrange is still soft, but it's not as obvious. Overall, the dynamic response of the speaker is more uniform over the audio spectrum. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 "Of course you can compare big ole horns to the Reference series, even conventional or exotic loudspeakers. " Colin, great comments, but I didn't see a comparison to the RF-7 anywhere in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 The gent I bought my cornwalls from a few years ago sold them because he had just purchased a pair of rf7's. I remember him being quite proud of those speakers. I wonder if he regrets that now? I wonder if he's on here? He was from upstate NY just outside of Albany. Colin I whole heartedly agree with everything you said especially ..."Used big ole horns are a bargain in audio." I picked my 1979 walnut khorns locally for only $1200 and they are like new. Where else can someone find a pair of TOTL speakers that sound this fantastic for such a low entry fee? Even if I paid $2000 I'd still feel like I stole them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Kelly you gotta get a pair of horns ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I'm still adjusting (myself and my pp amp) to the modified RF-7s. As of my last tube roll on the pp amps the modified RF-7s totally blow away everything in reproducing string quartets (my personal goal in this effort). I have yet to try the SET because its gain is too high for the system I'm using which uses the CD player's volume control. I've never heard anything come even close to what the RF-7s and pp amp do. A reminder to the pp folks: this is a no feedback, all class A, KT66 implementation .. like two SETs back to back. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Well said Colin. Naturally I agree. I like my other Kliipsch speakers. But the K-Horns are in a class by themselves. I can't say that others come close. There is some magic, born of top rate performance. No one has ever regretted the purchase of K-Horns. As pointed out, they are not particularly expensive when purchased used. At worst, you can resell them for what you paid. Folks report very good results using Heresy, Cornwalls, LaScala, or Belle's as center and surround. Another aspect is that K-Horns will let you experiment with SET. One school of thought is that these amps are superior . . . though you need a K-Horn to get the level of acoustic output to appreciate them. I, on the other hand, drive my horns with old low power amps from the orient. No complaints. I'd say, "Go for it." These are one of the few things in the world which are over the top, and there is little downside. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Once you own a pair of KHorns, there's no going back! Life with KHorns.... Life without KHorns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Colin, you really covered it; great post! I use RS-7's for surround duty with my k-horn/belle/k-horn set-up across the front. With 2-channel music played through dpl-II or DTS Neo6, and with multi-channel hi-rez that uses the surrounds primarily for ambience, the RS-7's do a great job. The differences in tonality are of no consequence. But with hi-rez recordings that uses the surrounds more aggressively, placing instruments or voices hard in the back, they come up a bit short. As to which is best for you, I think it depends mostly upon the length you are willing to go to accomodate those "big ol' horns". Without a doubt they have the ability to outperform the RF-7's in most areas of performance, save maybe imaging depth. But, those beasts can be very demanding in terms of set-up. Specifically, they are very revealing of any and all nasties in the upstream electronics and software. And the room is mission-critical to achieving their full potential. So, be warned; the demands of full-range horns can be great, but the rewards are great, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 "I found that with the RF-7s in corners (I had to create a small low wall for one) the cones do a much better job of keeping up with the dynamics of the horn. The lower midrange is still soft, but it's not as obvious. Overall, the dynamic response of the speaker is more uniform over the audio spectrum." That's quite interesting, Leo. My RF7s are placed away from corners as I found them to be much more open and the bass is not overpowering. It's possible that different room acoustics behave differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Neo33, I'm sure rooms make a lot of difference and non-corner placement will work fine. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.