mobile homeless Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 The offending post below... I still say The Shape of Jazz to Come is a must have. DONT SEND IT OFF, SCOTT! As you get more and more into jazz, you will learn to appreciate this landmark record. I literally just listened to this LP yesterday and it's on my tt as I am typing. I consider it a basic for a jazz collection. Go for the vinyl over digital. It's still out there. Ornette Coleman is NOT easy. This does not go down with the cool ease of something like early Miles Davis. But I love Ornette Coleman. He does some amazing stuff although for first timers into jazz, he might seem a bit on the esoteric side with phrasing that is hard to grasp and compositions that are far more challenging for the listener. Ornette Coleman is really not background music; he demands attention (not to say that others dont, but it is even more imperative with the likes of Ornette, Dolphy, Ayler and others that practice more Free style jazz). But if you havent heard Ornette Coleman, you owe it to yourself to at least pick up a few to sample. Some are easier to take in than others but ALL worthy (although some might disagree). Ornette is best known of ushering in the concept of FREE JAZZ. But Ornette thought of it differently. Here, Vivien Goldman summarizes a bit of what Ornette was after: Coleman is the creator of a concept of music called "harmolodic," a musical form which is equally applicable as a life philosophy. The richness of harmolodics derives from the unique interaction between the players. Breaking out of the prison bars of rigid meters and conventional harmonic or structural expectations, harmolodic musicians improvise equally together in what Coleman calls compositional improvisation, while always keeping deeply in tune with the flow, direction and needs of their fellow players. In this process, harmony becomes melody becomes harmony. Ornette describes it as "Removing the caste system from sound." On a broader level, harmolodics equates with the freedom to be as you please, as long as you listen to others and work with them to develop your own individual harmony. His landmark recording was "THE SHAPE OF JAZZ TO COME" as this was one of first recorded examples of Ornette breaking free of chords and typical phrasing, opening up to free musicians to move in areas not explored before. Improvisation took a giant, looping left turn and started traveling without a map. This recording is a must have in my view for anyone interested in jazz... In some ways, it's hard to believe it was done in 59. Listen to the work done in Congeniality and you will hear greatness. Here are just a few to START the Ornette Coleman exploration: Ornette Coleman: The Shape of Jazz to Come Just an EXCELLENT LP... Recommended! LA, January 16, February 23, March 9-10, 1959 Ornette Coleman(as), Don Cherry(tp), Red Mitchell(, Percy Heath(, Shelly Manne(d) Ornette Coleman: This Is Our Music New York, July 19, 1960 Ornette Coleman(as), Don Cherry(tp), Charlie Haden(, Ed Blackwell(d) The Ornette Coleman Trio: At The "Golden Circle" Vol. 1 1965 A GREAT live recording - Vol 2 is more esoteric. " Gyllende Cirklen" Stockholm, December 3 & 4, 1965 Ornette Coleman(as,tp,vln), David Izenzon(, Charles Moffett(d) Ornette Coleman: Free Jazz Double Quartets playing opposite each other - this is challenging listening - out there... And ONLY recommended with NOTE that this is an acquired taste New York, December 21, 1960 Ornette Coleman(as), Don Cherry(tp), Charlie Haden(, Ed Blackwell(d), Billy Higgins(d), Scott LaFaro(, Eric Dolphy(bcl), Freddie Hubbard (tp) kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Geez, some of you guys never sleep. I will listen to Stan again tonight when I get home and post. Tried to order Duke today, but cannot find an lp of "Wahoo". I will try for a CD if I have time. I did order "Tender Feelings" on CD from Amazon. I appreciate all of your reccomendations and obviously order and keep the selections you mention. As time goes by I know I will like them more and more. Khorns would help, I am sure. In the meantime I will just order and save. Kelly, as I mentioned before the Ella F. you posted in MP3 form was great. I listen to it alot and for an MP3 it comes across as a great recording on my stereo. If you could provide more selections like those for me to download that would be greatley appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Ok, "The Shape of Jazz to Come" will stay here in the land of the frozen tundra. (It's a negative 5 degrees at the moment.) Maybe I have to approach Ornette Coleman in a different way. It just seems hard to relate his music to any of the other jazz (bop & hard bop) that I've been listening to lately. Maybe the problem is that I'm not sure which way to move my head. You know what I mean. Like with Girl From Ipanema you kind of go side to side and with something like Willette's, "Swingin' at Sugar Ray's" you gotta go front to back. I don't know which way to go with Ornette Coleman. Ah, for now I'll keep an open mind and maybe something will come along to provide that missing stepping stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Bill, I think you will enjoy Tender Feelins' Now all you need is some Peet's Coffee and you'll be all set. Wahoo is available at CD Universe: http://www.cduniverse.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 boomac, Sun Ra's and the Intergalactic Orchestra is definitely more for the experienced ears. I'm not surprised you may not get it. I usually try to post play lists that are not covered by Allan or Kelly, though I have a great many of the LPs they list, so you may see some already mentioned. Here's a list of LPs and a few CD's I have listed in the past that I feel are worth a listen if you see them. Many of the these LP's may be easier to find on CD format depending on how extensive your vinyl source's selection. Male Vocals by King Pleasure. "The Source", Prestige 24017 This 2 vinyl LP from Prestige is a compilation of some of King Pleasure's classic tunes backed with classic jazz players including Teddy Edwards, Lucky Thompson, Kenny Clarke, Kai Winding. Singers like Blossom Dearie, Betty Carter, and the Dave Lambert Singers. I wish he had recorded more during his lifetime. "Clifford Brown Memorial Album", Clifford Brown, Blue Note BST 81526 "Charlie Rouse Epistrophy", Charlie Rouse, Landmark LLP-1521 Recorded in SF at the Thelonious Monk Birthday Tribute, 1988 Jazz in the City Festival "5 by Monk by 5", Thelonious Monk Quintet, Riverside RLP 12-305 "Seven Steps To Heaven", Miles Davis, Columbia (Monaural) CL2051 "Caravan", Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Riverside 9438 "Marsalis Standard Time Vol.1", Wynton Marsalis, Columbia FC 40461 "The Truth is Spoken Here", Marcus Roberts, Novus 3051-1N Marcus Roberts is one hell of a pianist. He also appears on the above LP by Wynton Marsalis. This LP is significant because it is the only know documentation of Charlie Rouse and Elvin Jones together. Rouse passed away five months after this session. "A Portrait of Thelonious", Bud Powell, Columbia Jazz Odyssey Series, PC36805 "The Thelonious Monk Memorial Album", Thelonious Monk, Classic Performances from His Prestige and Riverside Years, Milestone "Thelonious Monk with John Coltrane", Thelonious Monk/John Coltranne, Riverside 9490 "Thelonious Monk Quartet plus Two At The Blackhawk", Riverside "The Monmartre Collection Vol.1", Dexter Gordon, Black Lion "Great Encounters", Dexter Gordon, Columbia "Homecoming" Dexter Gordon Live at the Village Vanguard, Dexter Gordon, Columbia "The Hawk Flies", Coleman Hawkins, Milestones "Tribute to Charlie Parker, New York session", Jackie McLean, Jazz Line(RCA-France) "Miles Smiles", Miles Davis Quintet, Columbia "Cannonball Adderley Sextet, Jazz Workshop Revisited", Cannonball Adderley, Riverside "Finally-", Betty Carter, Roulette "Look What I Got", Betty Carter, Verve, "Whatever Happened To Love", Betty Carter, Betcar MK1004 "Black Codes (From The Underground)", Wynton Marsalis, Columbia "Royal Garden Blues", Branford Marsalis, Columbia FC40363 "Renaissance" Branford Marsalis, Columbia FC 40711 "Here To Stay", Freddie Hubbard "Woody III", Woody Shaw "The Real McCoy, McCoy Tyner "Wynton Marsalis", Wynton Marsalis "Marsalis Standard Time Vol 1", Wynton Marsalis, Columbia FC 40461 "Four In One", Sphere(C.Rouse,B.Williams,B.Riley,K. Barron) "Duke Ellington & John Coltrane", Duke Ellington, John Coltrane, Impulse "Coltrane Plays the Blues", John Coltrane, Atlantic 1382 "Ballads", John Coltrane Quartet, Impulse AS-32 "Cresent", John Coltrane Quartet, Impulse AS-66 "The Cape Verdean Blues", The Horace Silver Quintet plus J.J. Johnson "Adam's Apple", Wayne Shorter, Blue Note "Maiden Voyage", Herbie Han****, Blue Note From the CD rack; Whisper Not, Keith Jarret, ECM 1724/25 314 543 816-2 "Ezz-thetics", George Russell Sextet, A reissue by Fantasy of Riverside 9375 (A rec. from C&S) "Changes Two", Charles Mingus, Atlantic Jazz Gallery (Rhino) R2 71404 "The Essential Miles Davis" Miles Davis, Columbia Legacy C2K85475 A 2 CD set of recordings of selections from seven labels, 1945-1986. "The Real Quietstorm", James Carter, Atlantic Jazz 82742-2 "trio logy" Kenny Garrett, Warner Bros. 9 457321-2 "Speak No Evil", Wayne Shorter, Blue Note 84194 "With the Tenors of our Time", Roy Hargrove, Verve 314523019-2 "The New Standard", Herbie Hancock, Verve 314 529 584 2 "Footprints", Toots Thielmans, Emarcy 846 650-2 "Native Heart", Tony Williams, Blue NOte 7 93170-2 Female vocals by Shirley Horn; "I Remember Miles", Shirley horn, Verve 314 557 199-2 "Jazz Round midnight", Shirley Horn, Verve 314 539 678-2 Enjoy the Music....Jazz Music! Klipsch out. PS. I did not list many more LPs by Monk, Miles, and Mingus and Coltrane that are real favorites, because that would surely be another 50 or 60 LPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 jazman, thanks for the list. There's a lot there that I have never heard of. Last night I picked up a Wardell Gray with Erroll Garner LP, Monk's, Thelonious Monk Septet and The Invisible Cage by Bud Powell. (local shop I just found out about) Should have the new turntable set-up tonight and with the nasty cold and snow here, I plan an indoor weekend of music. In ssh's jazz thread, quite a while ago, you said, "It's a shame many of these artist did not receive the appreciation and respect their work so deserved when they were alive." You sure are right about that. Espically a guy like Duke Pearson who passed away at such a young age. I was wondering if he is mentioned in that Blue Note Jazz program you referred to? I still haven't been able to find that program on my cable system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 ---------------- On 1/23/2004 1:11:22 PM boomac wrote: There's a lot there that I have never heard of. Last night I picked up a Wardell Gray with Erroll Garner LP, Monk's, Thelonious Monk Septet and The Invisible Cage by Bud Powell. (local shop I just found out about) Should have the new turntable set-up tonight and with the nasty cold and snow here, I plan an indoor weekend of music. In ssh's jazz thread, quite a while ago, you said, "It's a shame many of these artist did not receive the appreciation and respect their work so deserved when they were alive." You sure are right about that. Espically a guy like Duke Pearson who passed away at such a young age. I was wondering if he is mentioned in that Blue Note Jazz program you referred to? I still haven't been able to find that program on my cable system. ---------------- Boomac, I've been listening to and loving Jazz for 40 years. My list's hopefully provides some less sought after titles, that if seen in the Jazz LP or CD bins would be worth considering. Most are from play list I've posted on this site in the past. No loosers on the list, and none I don't think are too difficult to grasp conceptually for relatively new listeners. It's sprinkled with selections from artist of several eras. The Marsalis brothers, I think, both bring a good understanding of "roots" to their music, though the construction and approach is a bit more modern. BTW, just curious as to, which direction did you go with your TT selection? I'm always happy to know there's one more vinyl enthusiast out there. As for Duke Pearson's early departure, don't forget Bud Powell only made it to 42, and some of that time he was hospitalized. What a tragedy for both. The Blue Note documentary can be purchased, and I've thought of doing so. If I do, I'll post and make it available to borrow and view by those interested. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I had a difficult time at first getting into jazz. I always loved Buddy Rich, but that's more big band than hard bop jazz. A few lps really got me started however. For beginners having a hard time it's good to find lps with nice snappy tunes. A few that really got me started were: 1) "Something Else" - Cannonball Adderly/Miles Davis 2) "Cool Struttin'" - Sonny Clark 3) "Time Out" - Dave Bruebeck 4) "Zoot!" - Zoot Sims 5) "Know What I Mean?" - Cannonball Adderly with Bill Evans 6) "Kind of Blue" - Miles Davis I know there were more. Sonny Rollins was in there also. With few exceptions, I now enjoy a lot more selections than I could have at the beginning of my quest. I recently picked up some original mint lps on ebay, some being Allan's suggestions: "The Amazing Bud Powell" "Workin' With The Miles Davis Quintet" Cannonball Adderly, "Jazz Workshop Revisited" (mono) I also have found some great reissues on lp (a couple on SACD) like: "Giant Steps" - John Coltrane "Blue Train" - John Coltrane "Straight, No Chaser" - Thelonious Monk "Tender Feelings" - Duke Pearson (thanks to Boomac) Just to name a few. The key was the first few. If not for those I don't know if I would have had the patience for the ones to follow. Now I can't stop listening to the stuff. I've found the recordings to be so much better than just about anything I've ever heard. It all sounds so real and live like you're in the same room with the performers wiping spit off your face if you're too close to the speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I've spent hundreds of hours enjoying Eric Clapton, believing that he has spirit-and-soul rock & roll. His blues is heartful & from the depths of human loss & hopefulness, in spite of it. I'm sorry if this isn't other's experience, but for me, it is. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 jazman, Regarding the turntable issue: I really appreciated the advice from you, Kelly and others. I have it all saved for future reference. Because of budget concerns, (two kids in college with one contemplating law school) we need to watch spending and I couldn't justify a $500 to $1000 investment. Therefore, I bought a Project 1.2 from my local dealer. Just under $300 inc tax and all set up and ready to go with a Sumiko Oyster cartridge. I'm also not very mechanically inclined and the idea of having new and a local dealer was appealing. I picked it up last night and will set it up later today. I plan to visit two record shops later today and pick up a few more LPs. Since ssh's thread, I have purchased 71 new jazz CDs and 36 jazz LPs. I have several lists and it's fun working on them. Now I have another thanks to you! I'm getting a pretty good feel for which musicians I really like and therefore I priorotize with that in mind. I've been working on a top 25 list of all the CDs I have and will post it sometime soon. With comments from pros like you, Kelly, Allan and others, it could prove to be a decent guide for newbies like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 boomac, Congratulations on your new TT. I've actually spent time with a 1.2 and it's a nice package with the benefit of having a no hassle setup, and a warranty. It's a good jumping off point, allowing you to enjoy vinyl and not break the bank. Many, many, moons and LPs down the road, a modest cartidge upgrade will take the 1.2 to another level of enjoyment for many, many, more moons and LPs. Welcome to the "vinyl asylum" and enjoy the music. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 I agree with Edmond. While the Project 1.2 is not the last word in turntable design it is just about the cheapest turnkey solution you can buy. I would choose it over many used options of unknown history via ebay as there is the potential for tonearm bearing play or damage elsewhere. The turntable is something you like to buy knowing a bit of the past owner history. Unlike an amp which is far less a gamble used relatively speaking, the turntable can be something easily abused, especially if it has been given up for digital and moved about the house to closets, attics, and storage areas. You can imagine the worse case scenerio. One of the biggest vinyl hounds I know, and someone that recently completed his SECOND coast to coast drive in search of vinyl (and twisted experiences) still uses a Project 1.2, now on its fourth cartridge, a Sumiko Blue Point. When I mention upgrades, he shrugs and says, "still sounds good to me." OF course, on our least week long listening spree after a Seattle to Wrightsville Beach coast to coast run, he totally flipped at the vinyl, tubes, horns combo. He went out and got the best EICO HF-81 he could find and promptly located some 70 yr old loon outside of Seattle to tweak it and replace everything not to spec. Bill? $20! heh... Yeah, he gave the guy a $20 tip and the promise to come back for ANYTHING. Point is, he loves his little Project 1.2 still and since he is a poor starving writer freak, it will likely be by his side for awhile to come. And no, he doesnt have horns yet... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 boomac, We expect at least a first impression soon. Age old problem- get a new toy & you don't have time to post . Congratulations. I hope the set-up is going well. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 25, 2004 Author Share Posted January 25, 2004 Here's a list of my 25 favorite "recommended titles". I have all, with the exception of Landslide and Cliff Craft on CD and some I have on LP as well. The other LPs are on my want list. I will, however, guarantee that the music on this list is nothing less than fantastic and if you like any one of them you will enjoy all of them. Chet Baker, Bill Evans and Art Pepper are not included because I'm not sure they fit the catagory. Chet Baker Sings, Waltz For Debbie and Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section are among my favorites and are highly recommended. The titles are, sort of, in order of preference but I will require a few more years of listening before I will attempt to defend my decisions. By the way, I went skiing with the kid tonight and therefore, the TT did not get set-up. Tomorrow I will be too stiff to do anything but listen to music so I'll try and provide a report at that time. Maybe! Here's the list: Cool Struttin' ------------ Sonny Clark Blue Train ---------------- John Coltrane Wahoo --------------------- Duke Pearson Somethin Else ------------ Cannonball Adderley Undercurrent -------------- Kenny Drew True Brooks --------------- Tina Brooks Idle Moments -------------- Grant Green Go ------------------------ Dexter Gordon Bird in Flight ------------ Donald Byrd The Amazing Bud Powell ---- Bud Powell The Sidewinder ------------ Lee Morgan Kind of Blue -------------- Miles Davis Tender Feelins ----------- Duke Pearson Soul Station -------------- Hank Mobley Saxophone Colossus -------- Sonny Rollins Leapin and Lopin -------- Sonny Clark The Scene Changes --------- Bud Powell Open Sesame --------------- Freddie Hubbard Face to Face -------------- Baby Face Willette Moanin -------------------- Art Blakey Sweet Honey Bee ----------- Duke Pearson Landslide ----------------- Curtis Counce Candy --------------------- Lee Morgan Cliff Craft --------------- Cliff Jordan The Real McCoy ------------ McCoy Tyner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 On 1/23/2004 7:18:43 PM jazman wrote: "As for Duke Pearson's early departure, don't forget Bud Powell only made it to 42, and some of that time he was hospitalized. What a tragedy for both. The Blue Note documentary can be purchased, and I've thought of doing so. If I do, I'll post and make it available to borrow and view by those interested." Jazman, How about Sonny Clark. Man, he only made it to 32. Think how much he could have accomplished and what we surely have missed out on. The Blue Note Special is avaliable at CD Universe for $14.95. http://www.cduniverse.com/sresult.asp?cart=174499320&style=movie&altsearch=yes&HT_Search_Info=blue+note&HT_Search=TITLE BTW jazman, was it you that recommended Dexter Gordon's "One Flight UP"? I picked up the CD and there are "issues" within. Any guesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 ---------------- On 1/28/2004 2:42:07 AM boomac wrote: BTW jazman, was it you that recommended Dexter Gordon's "One Flight UP"? I picked up the CD and there are "issues" within. Any guesses? ---------------- boomac, The list of Jazz artist tragedies are too many to name. Lee Morgan was taken out at 34, and probably the worst of all was Clifford Brown. He was killed in a car crash at 25! He was a person who didn't even glance at alcohol or the things that take their toll on so many artists. Go figure. I don't think I rec'ed Dexter's One Flight Up, but I certainly would. I don't own anything by Dexter in CD format. The twenty or so of his recording I have are all on vinyl, so I can't address the CD issue. What's up with it? Klipsch out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 jazman and others, Check the sound of Art Taylor's bass drum. To me, it sounds boomy to the extent that it actually becomes distracting. Everything else is great. Dexter Gordon, Donald Byrd and Kenny Drew are favorites and I've never noticed this on other sides that Art Taylor has played on. Just had a listen to True Blue and I don't hear it there. Let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I just picked up 2 SACDs today: "Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane" "Tenor Madness" - Sonny Rollins I've heard Tenor Madness many times before so I wanted to pick up the SACD but was pleased to find Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane. Anyone know if they recorded together much? Since it's a hybrid I was able to listen to a couple cuts on the way back to work. Very, very nice. You should check that one out Scott. I'd only heard Burrell solo and on one of Allan's original deep groove BN lps ("Introducing Kenny Burrell"). I love the way he and Coltrane play together! Based on the regular cd layer, the SACD should sound great. I'm looking forward to listening tonight at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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