3dzapper Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 "So who was more "grown up," David Koresh, or Jesus? The Amish, or the Ruby Ridge gang? Protecting oneself against all the possibilities, can take many turns, and each turn is a choice freely made. One path is a gun, a lock, an alarm followed by a bigger gun, a stronger lock and a louder alarm and progresses from there. You could call that simple escalation or "deterrence". (Think Cold War). Another path could be learning to recognize the dangers you fear and talking actions to avoid being around them. This is the "avoidance" strategy. It does require flexibility. It appears that on this forum any action that requires running away (going to another park, e.g.) or turning the other cheek, or simply not going to bad places, is somehow a foreign idea, suitable for smurfs and chickens but not "real men" who stand their ground with .45s blazing no matter what." Mark you are opening old wounds here. Randy Weaver moved his family to the mountains to escape the "bad places." David Koresh's groups retreat to Mt Caremel was likewise. Both examples are reminders of why "the people" need arms to protect us against tryanny. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Thanks for the input 3d - as I said it was only a thought. Just to take up a few of the things you said... "Your premise is incorrect on a couple of levels. Your increased tax for security scheme for one. Even with such a plan in place the government would not hold itself responsible if you were harmed." Actually I had in mind a sort of Government run insurance scheme (a money maker in itself for the government) whereby the additional contribition in Tax from you is partially used towards the bulk purchase of a massive insurance policy against your being a victim of violent crime. This is not as unworkable as you imply. "This would not affect the super rich as they have private security as you said. Nor would it effect Govt. officials, tax dollars would hire security. " I used the super-rich as an example of, in reality, how I beleive their lives are materially worse in many ways due to the fact that they are super-rich and have to place many more restrictions on their movements than a more moderately wealthy person. For all I care they can maintain their own private armies of security - I just imagine they would prefer not to have to. "The loosers would be those in the middle who have something to loose and no means to secure it. Also the tax burden would fall on those in the middle unfairly. " I saw those in the middle as the winners not the losers. They get to live without the fear... "The premise that all criminals or from the have nots is also wrong. Thugs come from all walks of life and crime is an exciting form of life for them not a necessity of their sustanence. Maybe except buying drugs if you consider that a necessity." All, no, but the vast majority of perpertrators of violent crime - yes (I think - no proof). This is the reason I think the govenment insurance scheme would be so profitable. I Might just send this idea off to Arnie - he is looking for a source of revenue for California as I type... Although I have the feeling he is in the pro-gun lobby (just a hunch). I'll be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Max, Is that like life insurance? Does it guarantee you life? The Governator don't need no guns, he's invincable. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Zapper----Hell, I'm still not comfortable with Protestants. I was about 12 years old before I even ran into one (my old neighborhood was all Irish, Jews and some Greeks down on Harrison), strange people; some believe in salvation through faith and the virtue of wealth, like Pagans. In fact I see Protestantism as a return of the Germanic Peoples to a neo-Pagan form of psuedo-Christianity and a rejection of Mediterranean civilization and religion; a return to Wotan and Thor so to speak. There, that'll keep it going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 "Is that like life insurance? Does it guarantee you life?" 2 Answers in no particular order: 1. More comprehensive than life insurance - includes personal injury insurance and possibly health cover etc. 2. No it doesnt guarantee your life - does a gun? It will howver compensate your loved ones in the worst case scenario (again - does a gun?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hmmm. Tom was right. My apologies to everyone. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm#weapons These charts are interesting. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/circumst.htm#circumgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 ---------------- On 1/6/2004 11:22:41 PM fini wrote: "I went up there, I said, 'Shrink, I wanna kill. I wanna kill! I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth! Eat dead, burnt bodies! I mean: Kill. Kill!' And I started jumpin' up and down, yellin' 'KILL! KILL!' and he started jumpin' up and down with me, and we was both jumpin' up and down, yellin', 'KILL! KILL! KILL! KILL!' and the sergeant came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said 'You're our boy'. Didn't feel too good about it." ---------------- Is that restaurant still open? I've heard you can get anything you want there. They sell guns there? Woo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syclone385 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I tire of Deen's argument, To suggest that if I were mature (grown up) spiritually, I would not need firearms is ludicrous. The need to conquer,vanquish,defeat and or otherwise win is programmed into your genetic code. All the evidence I need to prove this is to watch my 8 year old son chew a graham cracker into the shape of a handgun and commence to conquering the dinner table. Such behavior does not end there, the stick becomes the club,sword or staff the moment he lays hands upon it. Hollywood does not bear the responsibility for this behavior genetic code does. Passive is just as much a means of defense as a firearm. It can be more effective than a gun when faced with the right opponent(US ARMY). Insuring your survival is the outcome. The problem with passive is the post about the bully in the park. nothing is done so he is empowered to continue. Many have sacrificed so that Deen can take a stand against this madness. Someone must eventually take a stand. What would you do if you saw injustice on the street of you hometown. Lets say, a thief robbing an old man. Would your principles demand that you stop him? perhaps you would observe as the thief beat and possibly killed the old man and then call the police. I know what I would do! You may noy be one of "the guys" and that is fine, but you need the guys. "You sleep peaceably in your bed while rough men do violence on your behalf." H.G. Wells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yeah, my one year old does that crazy sh!t too. He ran over to me yesterday and started whacking me with a set of interconnects I had laying on the floor. It's a damn good thing I didn't have my gun handy -- I would've pistol whipped the little tyrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 "Southerner's Answer: BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click...(sounds of reloading). Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids think?" Son: "Mom's right, Dad. I saw it too..." BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click. " The US Civil War (evil greed vs. conscientousness) is still with us. What I don't get is why they think that violent racist crap is somehow "cool". Maybe that is the root of the problem.....I mean, exactly why they think that evil is so cool. Probably because they are so damned insecure about their own sexuality, eg. their tiny little ..... PS. Entreprenurial heads up, forget animal crackers, we want "gun crackers" for crackers. Your kids will go crazy munching on little gun shaped goodies. If this is not on the market, this is a great opportunity. You might be as big as Nabisco......bigger than US Steel...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 Who is "they"? ALL southerners? Where in the original post is there anything having to do with race? Why are you even dragging THAT into this issue? Also, please quit assuming that ALL Christians are Extreme Right Wing Fascists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Its connected, its the Civil War. The United States is all about racism and repressed sexuality. Thus the violence and obsession with guns. ps. I do not know why you would assume I think all Christians are right wing fascists, that would be absurd. Are you paranoid or something? I am merely talking about an evil (ignorant) strain that has always manifested in this country and is with us today with a vengence. I think they very well know who they are. Pss: I do not think the blame is on the entertainment industry, but rather on those individuals who are not creative enough (or are repressed enough) to create any healthy "drama" in their own lives. Violence (implied or otherwise) has been a valid tool of the dramatic arts from the beginning and in an audience comprised of healthy individuals can be cathartic and/or instructive, even fostering revelation of consciousness.That people blame the entertainment industry is as lame as blaming Charles Darwin. Some repressed individuals whose denial is so deep that they are deluded are difficult to fix and can be potentially a danger to society. The rest of the evil problem is just greedy ethnocentric "anti-intellectual" terroists masquerading as "patriots". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 ---------------- On 1/7/2004 3:19:57 PM Clipped and Shorn wrote: The United States is all about racism and repressed sexuality. Thats so sad! Not what you said which even I, a devout cynic do not believe but what you think! Thus the violence and obsession with guns. Yeah, it has nothing to do with drugs or hate or any of those other things. So sad. ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 There are two definations in the online Encyclopedia Britannica, the first is: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition" the second: "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control " I know of no one on the right, Christian or other, who fits tha above definition. Fascists, Nazis, Communists, Progressives are all socialists on the left.IMHO Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Its about FEAR Drugs/Hate, Violence/Guns......all symptoms of what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Rick---Fascism and Nazism were left-wing Socialist? That would have been news to IG Farben, Krupp and Siemans. And all those Trade Unionists that Hitler and Franco suppressed and killed, they would have been surprised to learn that too. And here I thought the Spanish Civil War was Left vs. Right, now to find out from you that it was Left vs. Left and Franco was a Socialist!!! God, that's one of the stupidist notions I've ever heard. I'm sorry if that's insulting but your statement is breathtaking in it's subversion of reality. You must be jagging us. If you can't beat 'em redefine 'em, heh? Are you really serious or just jagging us? No, you gotta be jaggin' us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Sorry fini - this is in no way intended to usurp your position as minister of jocularity. The late Justin Wilson once told a story about a man that was robbed by a guy wielding a 2x4. The man told the robber there was no way he was gonna rob him with a piece of wood. The robber started beating the man who began hollering, "Stop! Stop! Hold your 2x4. I'm gonna give you my money." As the robber was walking off the man told him to stop for he had some more money hidden in his shoes. After giving the robber all his money, the man said to the robber, "Please mister, take this money and buy yourself a gun. You're gonna kill somebody with that 2x4!" Ba-da boom, ba-da bing. Oh and the only other thing I have to offer this, the mutha of all threads, is: It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 And here I thought the Spanish Civil War was Left vs. Right, now to find out from you that it was Left vs. Left and Franco was a Socialist!!! No it was Fascist v Communist. As was Germany's invasion of Russia a war of differing socialist tenents. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm'>That's Entertainment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 So..why are gun crimes going down? Gun purchases are up, every year more States pass conceal carry laws..sooo what is the theory? PS I live in a city of 300,000 +- in which 28% of adults over 21 have canceled carry permits. In 1999 there were 5 murders 1 by a firearm, 1 by a knife and 3 by baseball bat (one family or I should say a mother and two sons involved in a bad meth deal). In 2000 there were 4 (all justified, all police officer involved) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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