wrench_peddler Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 There is a Chroma 396 DAC on ebay. I have a Pioneer pd-65 coming. Would the 396 DAC be better than the built in DAC in the pd-65? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I would surely listen to the PD-65 first before rushing into buying the Theta Chroma DAC. I have heard the cobalt and some of the other Theta machines in the 90s. They were pretty detailed and had good low end drive. On the other hand, you introduce problems with digital jitter and the link process when going with an external DAC. Stereophile did a test and found some jitter problems with the Theta drive and a version of the Chroma. Then again, this was a common problem, especially early on. It's actually easier to get more cohessive sound in my view going with a good single box player. Not to say good results cant be achieved with an external DAC, but your are now getting into difficult price territory with these two as an option. There are some nice single players around. A lot of the decision will be price/value motivated. I would try that PD-65 first to see. AT least this player makes a good transport if you do opt for this solution. An important point, what is the price of this duo of the Pioneer and Theta? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLKlipscher Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Be attentive, the audio guru speaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Informative post, FLK. I see your days as numbered here as your attacking posts far outweigh any useful information. So far, I have counted attacks to no less than four forum members. You apparently dont own Klipsch, yet have offered advice in another thread pertaining to which Klipsch to buy. You totally discredited the work and reputation of one forum member without any basis. Other posts have diretly contradicted your few previous posts regarding your own equipment. And you now offer absolutely NOTHING but personal attacks. While Hepa's troll picture directed your way didnt seem to do much, hopefully the moderators might observe enough on their own. It's that obvious. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLKlipscher Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 ---------------- On 2/8/2004 1:19:06 PM mobile homeless wrote: Informative post, FLK. I see your days as numbered here as your attacking posts far outweigh any useful information. So far, I have counted attacks to no less than four forum members. You apparently dont own Klipsch, yet have offered advice in another thread pertaining to which Klipsch to buy. You totally discredited the work and reputation of one forum member without any basis. Other posts have diretly contradicted your few previous posts regarding your own equipment. And you now offer absolutely NOTHING but personal attacks. While Hepa's troll picture directed your way didnt seem to do much, hopefully the moderators might observe enough on their own. It's that obvious. kh---------------- I am perplexed homeless. After reading your statements above, would you please explain how have you lasted so long in here? The constant badgering, attacks, and BS that you spew out to numerous members has gone on for at least a year that I know of. How have you not been kicked out yet? Your mindless assumptions of what I do and do not have are ridiculous. Better talk to your crack dealer pal. He's selling you bad stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 ---------------- On 2/8/2004 1:19:06 PM mobile homeless wrote: Informative post, FLK. I see your days as numbered here as your attacking posts far outweigh any useful information. So far, I have counted attacks to no less than four forum members. You apparently dont own Klipsch, yet have offered advice in another thread pertaining to which Klipsch to buy. You totally discredited the work and reputation of one forum member without any basis. Other posts have diretly contradicted your few previous posts regarding your own equipment. And you now offer absolutely NOTHING but personal attacks. While Hepa's troll picture directed your way didnt seem to do much, hopefully the moderators might observe enough on their own. It's that obvious. ---------------- Whew, talk about overreaction. I find FLKlipscher's irreverent posts pretty funny. It's easy to take audio too seriously. Anyway, FLKlipscher left a complimentary post to you over in the Architectural forum. So this business about "NOTHING but personal attacks" is not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 wrench All of us here, well most of us, are "tinker-ers". Playing and adjusting and tweeking our systems, always trying to get that little bit more If it's in your budget, give it a try. You may like it better, you may not. I have tried to use my "state of the art" Lexicon DAC's for listening and was not happy. I still use my modified 1985 CD player and find it more pleasing to listen to than my more modern equipment. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench_peddler Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 I got the PD-65 for $200 and lost the bid on the chroma 396 at $100 by about 20 seconds. We tied but he beat me by bid time. I had $102 cued up and couldn't hit submit quick enough. I am sure the Pioneer will be all I need but I knew the transport was top notch and thought the 396 would be neat to try and see if there was any difference. Thanks for the help. I am learning every day. Maybe years from now, I can become one of them adiosfilets or what ever it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 ---------------- On 2/8/2004 1:29:04 PM FLKlipscher wrote: ---------------- On 2/8/2004 1:19:06 PM mobile homeless wrote: Informative post, FLK. I see your days as numbered here as your attacking posts far outweigh any useful information. So far, I have counted attacks to no less than four forum members. You apparently dont own Klipsch, yet have offered advice in another thread pertaining to which Klipsch to buy. You totally discredited the work and reputation of one forum member without any basis. Other posts have diretly contradicted your few previous posts regarding your own equipment. And you now offer absolutely NOTHING but personal attacks. While Hepa's troll picture directed your way didnt seem to do much, hopefully the moderators might observe enough on their own. It's that obvious. kh---------------- I am perplexed homeless. After reading your statements above, would you please explain how have you lasted so long in here? The constant badgering, attacks, and BS that you spew out to numerous members has gone on for at least a year that I know of. How have you not been kicked out yet? Your mindless assumptions of what I do and do not have are ridiculous. Better talk to your crack dealer pal. He's selling you bad stuff. ---------------- Have you lost your mind? Leave us alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLKlipscher Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Minnow, your posts are invariably insignificant in temperament. Relegate your gratuitous interlocution elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Somebody likes to use their thesaurus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Wrench. External DACs can induce more problems than they cure. The bane of Digital CD audio is Jitter. Adding an external DAC is is something that should be avoided. That is not to say that all transport / DAC combos suffer from Jitter, but external DACs can exacerbate the problem. Built in DAC is the way to go, much simpler. Keep it simple. That's my $.02 anyway. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 ---------------- On 2/8/2004 4:41:06 PM tbabb wrote: External DACs can induce more problems than they cure. ---------------- Excellent point. It's counterintuitive, depending on how you intuit, of course. I think in the future we'll see more products along the line of Sony's all-in-one-unit SACD/CD/receiver. As Ric Schultz (a modder) posted: ***No digital cable, no multiplexing the digital signal, no send and receive circuits, no PPL needed to recover a good clock.....all you need is to use some really killer Superclocks in this machine and the jitter will be extremely low and the sound should be killer.*** The jury is still out on the new generation of Sonys. Last year's definitely had some compromises. But the concept still holds interesting promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 It's actually easier to get more cohessive sound in my view going with a good single box player. Based upon what data? Would it be good to put a tuner and CD player in an amplifier box? Like a car stereo. Isolation of components is the objective of an outboard DAC. And the power supply outside of the DAC box; for better DACs. Well shielded 75 ohm cable is important to carry the signal. Most DVD players under $ 700 MSRP sound poor in reprodution of guitars, cymbals and snare drums. Normal benchmarks I have heard in live nearfield conditions. My opinion is the EMI from the Video DACs creates jitter that prohibits music reproduction accuracy. The white paper from www.virmode.com comes to the same conclusion. Perpetual Tech and MSB DAC reviewers and owners understand the benifits. Rega to me is only mid fi. An Arcam FMJ or Theta have many more power supplies dedicated to diffent CD functions. Never heard them but the design concepts have merit. $ 2000 MSRP players allow enough profit to adress the small factors that affect CD reproduction. $ 1000 TT and Cart investment sounds better than the same investment in CD technology to me. I have heard the last 3 Sony top of the line SACD/CD players. Generally well impleneted even for CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I've been very happy with my two MSB DAC's. I'm actually a bit embarrassed, I didn't realize that I had the output coming out of my cd player instead of my DAC on my upstairs system. I've been listening to that system now for a few weeks, all the while thinking I had the DAC in line. Sounded really nice. But tonight, I'm back there rewiring, and I discovered that I didn't have the output coming out of the DAC! I spent 45 minutes listening to a totally different system after rewiring. The soundstage opened up and the music was much more detailed. Now, keep in mind that I was using a simple Denon player and not one of the nicer units that is out now, but still, what a difference! Amazing. Let's put it this way, whether you get an all in one box (which I agree would be a nice way to go), or if you get a separate DAC, DO SOMETHING! There's just so much to gain by improving the CD front end of a system. Would someone please do something about this FLKlipscher guy. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 "The soundstage opened up and the music was much more detailed." Pretty much what i hear Even a used Link II for less than $ 250 is quite nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neergan1216 Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 In my quest for a high end system, my opinion is in most cases an external DAC is of no benefit. I've auditioned the Muse 2, ART DI/O, EVS Millennium II, and Museatex Bidat with upgraded Dynaco ST70 and Bottlehead Foreplay. None impressed me to any extent. These compared to an Arcam Alpha 9 one box. How about this? The best system I've heard, period: old Sony DVP S7000 to a stock Sherwood S-5500II integrated, with home made Utah 12" 2-in-1 speakers, DIY CAT-5 cables, DIY Jon Risch IC's. All this for <$500. I think the whole answer is component matching, and KISS to reduce jitter, etc. Den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 These compared to an Arcam Alpha 9 one box. True, but the A9 is not a mass market one box player. MSRP is most likely over $ 1500. You can add a nice DAC to an existing mass market player for less than $ 500; used for less than $ 300. The challenge is to avoid spending over $ 1500 to get good CD sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Wrench, 2 possible benefits that I see: a) I have always taken the position that individual components are USUALLY and EXPECTEDLY better in quality and performance than the typical single consumer-level component trying to do "it all" at a particular price point. This, of course, assumes some informed shopping around, etc. As an added benefit, the separate component can be changed without replacing the entire system, which for "us tweakers" is the real under-lying bonus. The possible drawbacks: a) You increase the AC requirement at the particular location with its enherent logistical issues. Sometimes, this causes a real nightmare (or rats nest) at the "stack". Adding another separate to the equation adds the requirement for another set of interconnects, and that IMO unless very good cables are added, you may lose more than you gain, or the dreaded alternative (if it works out better than you imagined): suddenly your other gear(s) performance is suddenly revealed to be less than desirable... It's a tough call. Another approach would be rather than going the separate DAC route, why not just replace the current player with a "better" one... I would go for the separate as a matter of course if it were me. Good luck and may you enjoy your choice! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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