Daddy Dee Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/dview.asp?forumID=68&catID=19&mtype=topic&postID=31978 I was having a conversation with a forum member who was telling me a little about the colorful history of the LB-76, which PWK built a few, but never went into regular production. From the link above, one can find the drawings posted on the forum. After looking at the drawings, there are several things I'm wondering about and would appreciate any help from folks on this. 1) I believe I am understanding that I'm looking at a HF cabinet loaded with a K77 tweeter, K55 and K500 midrange, and probably some crossover similar or exactly matching what would be in a Belle. Is this right? 2) Does anyone have dimesions or other drawings available? 3) Is the woofer a 12 or 15 inch speaker? 4) How in the heck would one get into the cab to install the woofer? Through the front? 5) I'm wondering if the (what do you call it) the rectangular opening for LF sound to come out of the woofer enclosure... Would this be the same size as in a LS doghouse? 6) Also, I'm wondering what PWK had in mind for hardware to hold the cabinet doors on, to keep them from rattling like heck. 7) I'm guessing that it would have sold mainly as a center, as it's original design intended. That would be fine I think, inbetween two Khorns. The LF drop off looks like it is significantly higher freq than a LS. I've been getting a few parts together for an intended Heresy on steroids project, then thought this looked pertty cool. However, I know for sure that if this rascal is harder to build than LS, I don't want to bother with it. Also, I don't think it would be serving it's intended purpose well as a pair of main speakers. Any help here is appreciated. Anyone who wants to read back on the above posted link and another thread or two on LS-76, there is some excellent history that has been already written for the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Dee, 1. I really don't believe the LB-76 had enough HF cabinet area to mount the K-500 horn lens in, the K-500 is too wide...it was either the K-600 from Cornwall or a special-built fiberglasss horn lens...we DID have a fiberglass guy working there at the time....building prototype horn lenses. The tweeter was the K-77, the midrange driver was the K-55V. The crossover was SPECIFIC to the speaker, not just dropped into the LB-76 from another production model. As a matter of fact, more than one type of crossover network was used in the LB-76 models built...one might say that each pair was basically an experimental model pair, since there were so few built to begin with...maybe AT THE MOST, five pairs were built, but likely just three pairs. 2. About the only way to get the dimensions would be to take the patent drawings and use the scant dimensions given and reverse engineer from that point...unless somebody at Klipsch will look up the drawings and get you a set. 3. I am not sure...I want to say it was pushed by a 12" woofer, but it MAY have been a 15" one. 4. The front panel right ahead of the woofer is removable, and is the access door to the woofer. 5. The mouth of the folded horn woofer is NOT the same size as that of the LaScala...it is SMALLER. 6. PWK used removable hinges...four on each side if I remember correctly...on the "doors" that hinged to either side of the cabinet...nobody ever used those when we borrowed them from the plant though...too much hassle to deal with. 7. The LB-76 was NEVER intended as a center channel speaker...it WAS INTENDED to be a lower cost alternative to the LaScala, that was smaller in footprint, lighter to man-handle around for stage use, and provided a performance CLOSE to that of the LaScala...but it proved to be cost ineffective for production, so it was never put into production...IOW, it would not have been LOWER ENOUGH in cost compared to a LaScala to justify its being marketed for its intended purposes! PWK had a couple built up for Mrs. Valerie for use in her music teaching classes...and a few more pairs for experimentation until it was decided not to put them into production, then the speakers already built became loaners for company employees. Maybe "Mr. P" will chime in here, since he was a part-time engineer at the plant about that time...Mr. Putnam...are you reading this? It IS Curtis Putman, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Andy, Would you like to make lot's of money? Write a book. I'm not kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Yes like a real biography of PWK ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 If my memory serves me right ... And after many years...let me try. I know I have seen these here in Indianapolis, Indiana when Klipsch was all down in Hope. I believe I saw them at Calliope Sound. Now Indy Pro Audio. In the late 70's early 80's (79-81) they were made as test units to be used as DJ speakers. I felt more of a punch in the bottom end or at least they sounded lower to me. (hard to know for sure, they were pretty punchy and also had an EQ with the old and faithful crown amps also made in Indiana). Wish I could remember more. I do not know if Calliope made these or Klipsch did. I do remember the scoop bottom, they looked at a 12 and a 15 inch too. The purpose again was to have a pair of speakers a little less costly as the La Scala and still have punch for bands and DJ work?? Fiberglass finish...and sides with metal trim.. That picture brought back many memories!! ============================================================= I just read Andy's post... maybe these were loaners. Either way I am sure I remember seeing them in my mind. Also had a big painted Klipsch white word logo was on the front flat area. I do not remember the doors however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 As far as the mid horn goes, the patent states: Mean Sound Path = 15 Inches Throat Area = 0.4 Square Inch Mouth Area = 46 Square Inches This describes the Belle mid horn to a "T". I'm in the process of "researching" this speaker including "exact" dimensions. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 It may have been the Belle horn lens, but my memory of the speaker cabinets makes me think it is the Cornwall lens...25 years ago is a very long time...know what I mean? All of these were built at Hope...not anywhere else, unless PWK sold the rights to them, which, by that time in his life, is highly doubtful! I believe a very few were special-ordered for a very short time period...a VERY FEW!!!(like maybe no more than 5 pairs!!!)...but they never went into standard production...and well before I left in 1983, they were not even offered as a special-order item, anymore! Hell, we never even set up a spot to build them in at the plant...normally Ronnie Barhams and Charles Horn got stuck with building the few that actually WERE built...and they HATED building them!...that is why THEY coined the original nickname..."Little Bastards"...Mrs. Valerie thought it was cute so she let the name stick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Andy, We could use your incomparable supply of Klipsch knowledge in the thread in Updating Older Speakers about La Scala grilles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 11, 2004 Author Share Posted February 11, 2004 Thanks guys. Interesting info. Hope to maybe see the LB's in Indy, or wherever they might be. I'm definitely going back to my Heresy on Steroids project. It will be more to my skill level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Let me see if I can dredge up some memory on this thing. Just for $hits and grins, LB stood for Little Bastard, 76 was the year Paul hatched it. When I became involved with it in about 78, Paul said, " go down in the basement and drag that little bastard with the doors on it up here so we can get back to work on it." 1. The drawing in the patent was made with and earlier version with a K700 horn and K22 bass driver. By the time I was involved it had evolved into the K500/K33 version. There was barely enough room to get the K77 and the K500/K55 Onto the mounting board. I did most of my work with the Crossover network. It was a monster, and had to be mounted on two separate boards so it could be mounted around the K55 and the horn support bracket. 2. I don't believe there were ever any formal drawings made on this speaker. 3. It's last incarnation as of 1980 had a 15", and I think my crossover work was geared towards making it work with a K43 driver (the heavy commercial 300w rated driver). 4. In the side view from the patent, panel number 7 was removeable. It was a real trial getting the commercial driver with it's bigger magnet structure in and out. 5. We refered to that as the throat, and it was the same as the K-horn, Bell, and LaScala. 6. While I was there we had not progressed that far, the test models had standard Piano hinge, and the model I worked with had the brass finished kind that can be purchased at Lowes. 7. It was being looked at as a commercial application and not intended to be a home speaker. There was no need for an addition to the Heratige line at the time. They had already started working on the KG-1 and KG-2 for smaller rooms. Big speakers were already going out of style. 8. The difficulty with this speaker was that it's bass cabinet was more efficient than the K-horn bass cabinet, but it didn't have the space for the 400Hz horn. When I can get a chance, I will post a crappy picture of the one I worked with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 You got real close. The last name is Putnam, not Putman. I rarely mention the difference unless I expect to see the person involved again. I was a summer employee in '75 & '76 and was full time from the summer of '77 through December of '79. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Calliope Sound.....that brings a flood of memories!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 OK, Curtis...if you wanna know who I am, my name is Andy, I started at K&A in July 1976, left there in September 1983. I spent most of my time there building Cornwalls(almost all of em built between 1977 and 1983 were built by me) and birch Heresys, but I also spent time building everything else in the now so-called Heritage series....built MCM 1900 cabinets too! I remembered your name as Putnam, sorry I misspelled it. I used to date a redhead (Wanda)most of the time I worked there, she sadly passed on a few years back. To see what I looked like back then open up the attached pic. I believe we partied together on occassion...for a time I lived in an old farmhouse just south of Emmett, AR....had a few hellacious parties out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Yeah, I am starting to see you at that LaScala Bench now. I lived with Danny McLeod for a while then moved into the trailer in front of the plant by the old lab. I assume you made the concert parties out at Don Petersons place!! I will try to scrape up some old pictures for you soon. Where do you live now..I am in Alabama. Guess I should stop rehashing on the little bastard thread....but I guess the little bastard doesn't care!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Yeah, I made a few of the "Planting festivals" and "Harvest festivals" out at Don's place outside of Old Washington...matter of fact, I helped build the original stage down in the "bowl" there. Those parties were lots of fun...with Gwin and Judy manning the kegs of "PBR" at 50 cents a 16 oz. cup. It's hard to beat an MCM 1900 system for live music atlarge outdoor parties, know what I mean? I live in Fort Smith, AR now. I have been trying to get into a woodworking shop of my own, but finances are delaying it for now at least. I want to eventually go into semi-retirement building replacement cabinets for LaScalas, Cornwalls, and Heresys that folks pick up cheap on eBay. That way, folks can buy them relatively cheap on eBay with good components, but raggedy cabinets...and I can provide them with nice new cabinets with some "class" (read: high WAF) at a reasonable price...and everybody involved will be smiling. It would also provide me with an opportunity to do some experimentation with other bass-horn designs and combos. Maybe some day. Last I heard, Danny picked-up that LaScala that was built out of black walnut-veneered panels for Bob Moers, and I heard that Jim H. was interested in getting it. Jim told me last summer that it had once been in PWK's house, but I thought it had gone straight from the plant to Bob's place...it was built before Jim ever went to work there and was definitely at Bob's place by the time Jim arrived on the scene. I don't know where he got his info about that LaScala, but PWK had already had a Belle in his place as a center channel between his K-horns LONG BEFORE that walnut LaScala was ever built...so I doubt it was ever at PWK's place. My memory, poor as it is, tells me that Bob had that speaker built specifically for himself! I definitely remember that Bob bought that black walnut log from me about the same time and split it to make two benches to go with a table in that fancy house he was building. If you remember any of the details on that walnut LaScala besides what I just wrote, or can confirm/deny any of this, please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Andy, there is an interesting piece of Klipsch memorabilia for sale in your hometown on Ebay right now, listed last night. Although I don't really have the space for yet another, is this collectable and worth chasing? One of my stereo buff friends might be interested in the dust catcher... I', glad my wife overheard me tell him I am ONLY willing to clutter the basement with working speakers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Sheltie, I didn't look on eBay, but I would just about bet that you are talking about the K-horn cut-away that has been sitting in Stereo One for years here. Stereo One used to be the Klipsch dealer up here, but now Law's Electronics is the dealer. Stereo One has been cleaning out its old stuff lately to make way for its remodel...and has been selling Klipsch shipping boxes and such on eBay. I wonder if they originally bought that K-horn cut-away, or if they just lucked into being one of the dealers that the company LOANED one of these to...not all of the cut-aways were actually BOUGHT by the dealers way back when, ya know? Klipsch SHOULD be buying this...since I doubt they have more than ONE of them at the company now...and the one that Stereo One has is in excellent condition, too! A nice dust collector that just needs some dusting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Right you are! It looks to be in gorgeous shape, but I'm not running a retail outlet in St. Louis yet. I still have to decide whether to pick up a turntable, and this would remove any money for a deal. Half a Khorn sitting in the basement would be quite a conversation starter for most of the guys I hang with, but I can only imagine my wife rolling her eyes amongst her friends upstairs at the same party. Hope someone on the forum in the Midwest can pick it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Getting back to the LB... Has anyone seen one on display in Hope or Indy lately? I'm just curious where those few pair ended up. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 There is one in Indy... Downstairs where Trey Cannon is. It is really cool to see up close. How many times have we all tried to explain where the speaker is and how the filded horn works to someone only to get "deer eyes stuck in the headlights" staring back at you?? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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