wheelman Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ---------------- On 2/18/2004 12:31:35 AM BackBurner wrote: You know 90% of cables are copper!! Now that we have that straight, another 90 % is 128 strand OFC. ( IC's) This stuff can be bought ( say canare GS-6 guitar cable ) for pennies per foot. Buy some decent cardas ends a bit of solder and a soldering gun and you could make 4 cables for the price of buying 1 and your getting the same thing. Buy your favorite flavour and cut the dam thing open !! You come back here and tell me what you found. Biggest difference in cables is ends and shielding, all of which means nothing unless you live in a RFI hellhole. ---------------- But what if the consumer is not good at soldering or just doesn't want to build one? I totally agree if your good with your hands just like the old saying goes. If you want something done right do it your self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ---------------- On 2/18/2004 12:32:58 AM Griffinator wrote: ---------------- On 2/18/2004 12:27:22 AM wheelman wrote: You think 29 dollars plus shipping is expensive. I spent 25 for a radio shack coax. That 4 dollars was worth every penny. ---------------- Yikes. I had no idea that the Schlock had decided that they were a high-end cable brand! Scary thought, isn't it? ---------------- I let my brother use that cable from schlock and it literally distorted his picture on his tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Come on back griff , I'm not ragging on you or anything you've said. I'm here to help you, me, and others that wish to lurk these pages, i've got no less than 100k of kit, made tons of mistakes along the way. I'm one of those dumb pr!cks that paid $1800.00 for 2 12ft lenghts of monster cable " sigma " series . I'll help others to " not " do the same . Here's a perfect cable for a guy like you to make and try yourself. Take some canare GS-6 cable and cardas ends, Strip the cable and pull out the core with the clear insulation still intact. Orientate the strand direction ( very important ) . Use 1 piece as the center signal and 2 as the ground , braid the 3 cables together before soldering the conections . Shrink wrap back 2 inches from each end. Do a blind test with your favorite cable and report back to me if you find " any " difference what so ever . Btw : One of my best friends works for the largest cable manufacture in the usa. I know what is used to build this stuff and how much profit is in cables ( 400% from manufacture to wholesaler ). He will not and cannot post due to his commitment to his job , but i can and will speak for him if any of you guys have cable questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I've lost the link at the moment, but I still defer to the chief designer for McIntosh, who did several very well controlled blind tests regarding wiring. Their results showed that in blind A/B tests, no difference was found between adequatly sized "zip cord" and high end speaker cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIbor Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 This goes back to one of the first replies...do most people here prefer digital coaxial connections rather than optical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ---------------- On 2/18/2004 2:48:42 AM Champagne taste beer budget wrote: I've lost the link at the moment, but I still defer to the chief designer for McIntosh, who did several very well controlled blind tests regarding wiring. Their results showed that in blind A/B tests, no difference was found between adequatly sized "zip cord" and high end speaker cables. ---------------- Speaker wire is one thing. Digital Coax is something completely different. There are a host of issues to consider when transmitting digital information on a copper line. The most fundamental one that argues against using cheap guitar cable for this application is that it must be 75Ohm cable to properly transfer. I do agree with the assertion that plastic-fiber optical is a terrible signal transfer device. Quite a number of pro-audio companies have stated flatly that plastic optical will not transfer 24/96 signal without serious time smear issues. So, unless you're willing to spend $100 and up on an optical cable (make sure they explicitly say it's glass fiber) then stick with digital coax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 My bad, Griff. Sometimes I lose my train of thought at 3 AM. This time, I think it jumped the tracks and rolled through a trailer house court when everyone was at the yearly parade on Main Street, ruining homes but causing no bodily harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ---------------- On 2/18/2004 9:54:39 AM Griffinator wrote: Speaker wire is one thing. Digital Coax is something completely different. There are a host of issues to consider when transmitting digital information on a copper line. The most fundamental one that argues against using cheap guitar cable for this application is that it must be 75Ohm cable to properly transfer. Sorry griff , our wires got crossed someplace. I was'nt suggesting this rout for digital coax i was refering to IC's not digital stuff. One the other note, there is nothing cheap about guitar cable. One or 2 suppliers spin 128 strand oxagen free copper and sell to the majority of cable assemblers. I worked 7 years as a band roady, and have rigged gear most guys could olny dream of getting close to. We made our own stuff on the road ( cables ) when things went wrong, you learn how stuff works in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ---------------- On 2/18/2004 10:46:32 AM BackBurner wrote: Sorry griff , our wires got crossed someplace. I was'nt suggesting this rout for digital coax i was refering to IC's not digital stuff. One the other note, there is nothing cheap about guitar cable. One or 2 suppliers spin 128 strand oxagen free copper and sell to the majority of cable assemblers. I worked 7 years as a band roady, and have rigged gear most guys could olny dream of getting close to. We made our own stuff on the road ( cables ) when things went wrong, you learn how stuff works in a hurry. ---------------- This was one of the things that impressed me about Ultra - they do NOT buy cabling from outside sources - they oversee and/or own their entire process - from copper mining and refining, to wire fabrication, to final assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand11 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 -------- I've lost the link at the moment, but I still defer to the chief designer for McIntosh, who did several very well controlled blind tests regarding wiring. Their results showed that in blind A/B tests, no difference was found between adequatly sized "zip cord" and high end speaker cables. -------- For those currious http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Any reputable wire should work..... I personally cannot tell any difference... I say save money for better equipment hehehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Read it already. It's a good article. Unfortunately, his blind testing was done with what was essentially the best damned equipment on the market at the time, and furthermore was done in a controlled anechoic environment. Do you have your HT room set up like that? Do you have a $10,000 amp and a pair of $9,000 speakers hooked up to it, all in a 100% RF and EM interference-free room that is acoustically perfect? If so, you probably won't appreciate much of a difference between plain old zip cord and esoteric wiring. Meanwhile, back in the real world, most of us battle EMI from our television sets (unless you have a plasma monitor) our computers, RFI from the refrigerator motor, the heat pump, our lighting, the nut next door with the big-*** linear on his CB or HAM radio... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 "This was one of the things that impressed me about Ultra - they do NOT buy cabling from outside sources - they oversee and/or own their entire process - from copper mining and refining, to wire fabrication, to final assembly." they own or oversee the copper mines and copper refinery????? i don't think so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
device manager Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ---------------- On 2/18/2004 9:54:39 AM Griffinator wrote: I do agree with the assertion that plastic-fiber optical is a terrible signal transfer device. Quite a number of pro-audio companies have stated flatly that plastic optical will not transfer 24/96 signal without serious time smear issues. So, unless you're willing to spend $100 and up on an optical cable (make sure they explicitly say it's glass fiber) then stick with digital coax. ---------------- The SonicWave Glass Toslink typically sells for ~$80.00 but can be had for under $25.00 from Cables America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Like i said before , i built these cables by the hundreds . Wish i'd kept more than a few pairs.lol The center cable has " no " shielding , the outer cables are single signal and double grounded with shielding intact. These cost next to nothing to build , they look cool and sound great with SS or tubes. Those are cardas rhodium plated RCA's and canare GS-6 guitar cable ( 128 strand OFC ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Those look way better than most store bought cables, thats for sure . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 ---------------- On 2/18/2004 8:24:52 PM device manager wrote: The SonicWave Glass Toslink typically sells for ~$80.00 but can be had for under $25.00 from Cables America ---------------- I knew I'd heard of some companies that sell glass fiber optical for very good prices, but I couldn't remember the names. I think there's one called "Pro Audio" or something as well that sells a very reasonably priced glass toslink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Back Burner: Those are some sweet looking cables! Your twisted-pair configuration does a lot of the job that things like foil-shielding and such are designed to do (reject RF interference) I don't know that I'd use that as a digital coax, but I wouldn't have any problems using it as an analog interconnect! How much did those ends set you back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 "These cost next to nothing to build , they look cool and sound great with SS or tubes." they can't possibly sound good....they don't cost enough.... don't you know that you have to spend app. 3 months salary when proposing to your stereo..... uh...wait a minute.... that's for an engagement ring...... yeah.... about the same return on investment!!!! seriously, very nice looking cables..... and i'd be willing to bet the "golden ears" couldn't tell the difference from the big buck cables..... as i posted earlier, i too have built all of my interconnects except for my s-video cable..... great sound and very low cost!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 ---------------- On 2/18/2004 7:46:38 PM minn_male42 wrote: they own or oversee the copper mines and copper refinery????? i don't think so.... ---------------- Actually, it's true. Ultralink's #1 focus is on the purity of their copper. Every cable they put out is made from 6-nine (99.99998% pure) copper. How do they support the claim? They're tight with their ore supplier, and they work directly with the refinery. They have three factories - one in the US for fabbing the copper strand, two in Toronto for cable assembly. Monster, Recoton, Radio Shack, and a number of other brands? They design the cables and bid them out to Chinese contractors. No way to prove any of their claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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