dubai2000 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Revisiting gear which has not received the attention it might deserve can also turn into a reminder that a bit of modesty is always useful in life. But no philosophising here just a quick review of recent findings: For a while I had been listening to my Heresy/Eico combo less and less. Somehow the sound was less smooth and organic as I had remembered, or was my memory incorrect, had the living room set-up always been smoother? Pure chance made me touch the chassis while the amp was connected to the step down transformer (on), I believe the amp itself was off. What was that? It felt like some kind of current, oh dear, what was wrong here, a faulty part, yet another visit to the tech? Suddenly I remembered my very first serious ss amp. Whenever it was plugged into the wall wrongly (i.e. ignoring polarity), I only had to touch the chassis to find the right direction for the plug. I tried the same thing with the Eico and . Bingo! here it was, the silkiness, the musicality I had remembered.no, in a sense one doesnt need more than such an amp.unless one of the new micro-subs SVS is going to offer later that year. Next: McIntosh. I have already mentioned that much as I like the tuner section of the MX110, I am less convinced by its line section. But hey, we are in tube land, so why not some tube rolling? Indeed, I changed Vs 15,16,17,8. Did it make a difference? You bet, not only did the unit retain its McIntosh tone, suddenly it was (obviously) less tired with extension at frequency ends which I no longer find limiting. So before you ditch your vintage gear, make sure the tubes you are using are still fine. Finally the MC30s. With the silent Transcendent SE OTL in the house, I found the 30s simply too noisy, there was a persistent hum which, though not interfering when music was playing unless in very soft passages, sounded wrong. Okay, off they went to my local tech. A few days later the news: in each amp one cap was faulty and one of the remaining was corrected incorrectly. I collected the amps last night.silent at last. Sound? Mhhhhhhhh certainly different to before more open, less romantic, less tubey, but somehow not as convincing as the SE OTL. I mean things sounded not bad, but somehow I was looking for more magic or less of an amp playing, and more for the real thing. Final moves: Some month ago I was so curious that I actually got myself..shall I admit it?. a quad of cryogenically treated Chinese KT66. I had used them, liked their big soundstage, but found their mids a disappointment. Okay, I remembered Guys warning, but I had used them before for about a week and the amp was certainly not running any warmer than with those 6L6. So in they went. I am sure that real GEC KT66 will be a different animal again, but I had these and my budget simply rules out those NOS tubes. Anyway, even those Chinese tubes played ever so much more convincingly than the RCA 6L6. Much bigger soundstage; sound: bold, open, fast. So the new week leaves me with a rejuvenated McIntosh system which is certainly worth the money I had to invest in order to get everything to Germany. Is it better than the SE OTL? Its different, but equally valid. It seems to project the music with a different flavour, the SE OTL might be more honest, but Id like to leave judgement until the GG arrives. After all there is something in the concept of synergy. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 ---------------- On 4/6/2004 12:44:01 PM dubai2000 wrote: For a while I had been listening to my Heresy/Eico combo less and less. Somehow the sound was less smooth and organic as I had remembered, or was my memory incorrect, had the living room set-up always been smoother? Pure chance made me touch the chassis while the amp was connected to the step down transformer (on), I believe the amp itself was off. What was that? It felt like some kind of current, oh dear, what was wrong here, a faulty part, yet another visit to the tech? Suddenly I remembered my very first serious ss amp. Whenever it was plugged into the wall wrongly (i.e. ignoring polarity), I only had to touch the chassis to find the right direction for the plug. I tried the same thing with the Eico and …. Bingo! – here it was, the silkiness, the musicality I had remembered….no, in a sense one doesn’t need more than such an amp….unless one of the new micro-subs SVS is going to offer later that year. Wolfram ---------------- OK, this is interesting. I am supposing that it's easy to change the polarity on the Eico because of it's antique electric plug which will go into an outlet either way... Is this right? Other than touching the chassis for a shock, is there another way to judge which is correct for polarity. Would switching to a modern plug be enough, assuming that it was wired correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 ---------------- On 4/6/2004 2:57:42 PM DaddyDee wrote: OK, this is interesting. I am supposing that it's easy to change the polarity on the Eico because of it's antique electric plug which will go into an outlet either way... Is this right? Other than touching the chassis for a shock, is there another way to judge which is correct for polarity. Would switching to a modern plug be enough, assuming that it was wired correctly? ----------------I use this one: http://www.vandenhul.com/other/c-care.htm#polarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I compared the Chinese Valve Art GEC copies of the KT66 against Jordan's brand new set of perfectly matched GEC KT66's. There was a difference in the Bloom factor ( My definition of bloom is the speakers disappeared slightly more) but $500 more ??? No way not in my book. Also in every respect electrically speaking they operated Identically. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 That's good to know. I am going to buy a few more pairs of the Valve Art KT88's before people get smart and the prices go through the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 The prices won't go up as long as they are still manufacturing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Yea Guy is correct these prices have been stable for years ! But a extra back up set never hurt anything. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arco Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Wolfram, For the last two weeks I have been listening to my pair of MC-30's (with new sets of tubes...), trying to discover why these amps are so well regarded by the audio community. Surely, I had no noise problems whatsoever but the total performance was just O.K. Even with output tube rolling (GE6L6GC and TUNGSOL 5881, even some good EL34's...) the results did not improve much. Then came small tube rolling with Mullards, Teslas, Telefunkens...you name it. Still, I could not understand why these beasts should be considered as "reference" PP amps, at least regarding their synergy with KHorns. But, as you know, Hi-Fi is a treacherous thing. Little by little, I have discovered that these amps are quite sensitive to tube type rolling. To cut a long story short, replacing the first 12AX7 with a 5751 or 12AY7 and the last 12AX7 with a 12BZ7 did much to improve the sonics of the amps. Finally, using the 4Ohm taps did much to remove the last vestiges of "haze" I was hearing. Result: Now, the MC-30's form the basis of a valid alternative to my HK Citation II, worthy of eventual further enhancements... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 Aristidis, now here is indeed one thing I forgot to mention: I am using the 4Ohm taps as well and they sound a lot better (not true for the Eico/Heresy combo btw). I will have to do some more fron tube rolling - so thanks for bringing it up...but give those KT66 a try....I admit that I am still pleasantly surprised because I never expected them to be better than either the 6L6 mentioned above or the TungSol 5881. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Wolfram, Could you give me the tubes you currently feel are best suited for your MX100? I have one hooked to a rebuilt MC240 and would like to see if I can get a better sound. I have never had the MX110 checked out. I bought it from a stereo shop and it was checked by them to insure proper play only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 "Could you give me the tubes you currently feel are best suited for your MX100?" I am asking the same question. I am having an MX-110 rebuilt from the bottom up, and want to know more about tube options! What are the GOOD tubes for such a unit??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 My MX110 came full with Telefunken tubes in the main preamp positions, so I didn't expect the change I am hearing (which is not subtle IMO and was noticable with the Transcendent SE OTL as well - so not just a McIntosh synergy phenomenon!). For V8 (12AT7) I am using some Siemens (which read CV455) on the box, V16/17 (6U8) I picked up some NOS Sylvania, V15 is another (more recent?) Telefunken. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arco Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Wolfram, KT66's (and Mullard EL37's for that matter...) greatly intrigue me, although I am still in the research for the best compromise cost/quality-wise. Another (expensive...) alternative is the WE350B followed by the cheap and plentiful 807 which is compatible but requires a rewiring in the power tube sockets. Idem for the EL34, for which many people say that it blows away any 6L6 (and variants) in the MC-30's. Well, I have already made the test and I don't share this opinion at all. Not for one bit, although I very much like the EL34 otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 Aristidis, I think I read about those 807 as KT66 substitutes somewhere...what a pity I cannot solder . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Wolfram, Not versed in tubes. V15,17,16? Are these tube locations or a NOS Sylvanian tube? I guess I read it that I need 12aT7 Siemens and NOS Sylvania 6U8's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 William, I was not quite sure which tubes I'd have to change for the line stage section, so I contacted Audio Classics. V15 etc. are the tube locations which should be written on the chassis (unless somebody did too much cleaning ). Anyway, I am sure there are other 12AT7 option than those Siemens. I should have a pair of Mullards on the way and they might even be better. Just don't forget V15 which is the tube ahead of tone controls. If you don't want to change tubes in the phono section (V13/14) as well, you'll need two 6U8, one 12AX7 and one 12AT7. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 You can too solder! It's easy, Wolfram! We should have some sort of Klipsch forum - forum on soldering basics, where everyone is on standby, iron and solder in hand, with a couple of Radio Shack terminal strips wired up with some hook up wire. All chase off to solder a first connection, and then come back and report the results. Sheesh, there's nothing to it! If I could do it when I was 5 years old (this isn't bragging!!! it's just meant to illustrate that even a small child can do it!), you all can figure it out as old children! Here I go philosophizing again.....sorry about that! Seriously! think how liberating it would be to fix a broken joint or experiment with coupling caps without spending absolutely crazy amounts of money! Please try! It's really kind of fun....but yes, it can be work too when a big project is involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arco Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Wolfram, Yes, it's easy although I think you have to experiment a little before touching your precious gear! Here's an idea: You go to an electronics shop and you buy what they call a "soldering kit". For 5-10 Euros you have a small soldering iron, solder, some components and a breadboard or printed circuit to solder your components on. Plus full instructions with tips and tricks included. Some kits even include a small multimeter... No rocket science, you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 This is a very interesting AND important point about polarity. We are not actually talking about electric shock as a detector. With nothing else hooked up to the amplifier, rub the back of a finger across the metal of the amplifier. If it is correctly polarized you will feel nothing. Otherwise, you will "feel" a slight hum. Another, easier, test is with a simple neon circuit tester. Hold one probe with your fingers and touch the other probe to the amplifier. If you see a very dim flicker, reverse the plug. I emphasize that nothing else should be connected to the amplifier while making this test. If other non-polarized gear is present in the system, it also should be given the same test while standing alone. Use a felt marker to identify plug/receptacle correct positioning for later use. This is something that oldtimers knew to do, but ceased to be an issue with polarized plugs. DR BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Erik, maybe someone could do a video on this. I am sur that without guidance I could screw up anything. I am very mechanically inclined but not with delicate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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