picky Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Oh, MAN! Talk about having the H*LL scared out of you! ..... Sunday afternoon, I had our theater system on (watching 'Trading Spaces') while I was working on one of the soffets in our basement theater, and I noticed it was getting mighty warm down there. Michigan was in the midst of one of those freak, early-spring, mini-heat waves that seem to happen every couple of years. It went up to 87 that day. That's the first time it had been that warm here since late, last August. So, I went up to the main floor and switched on the A/C on our thermostat for the first time this season, just like I do every year. Our A/C system has a 7-minute turn-on delay. About 8 minutes went by and I noticed that I did not hear the air running. Then, I noticed that I could smell what smelled like circuit board frying! So, I went into the furnace room and I noticed that the "brain box" on the side of our furnace was making a very unusual noise. Normally, there is a constant transformer-type buzz coming from it all the time. But now it was much louder and higher pitched and pulsating. "NOW, THAT'S NOT GOOD!", I thought to myself. I went upstairs back to the thermostat and there was smoke billowing out of it! The darned thing was on fire! So, I switched it off "Cool" and ran back downstairs and cut the electrical power to the brain box, which also feeds 24 volts to the thermostat. I turned on the fan in the bathroom in the basement and then ran up to see it there might be a fire within the wall that the thermostat was mounted on too. Thankfully, the wall felt cool. I opened up all the windows to get the stench out of the house. Then I removed the cover from the thermostat and there was the culprit: A burnt-up FET-type power transistor with a heat sink on it! At least cutting the power stopped it in its tracks! I then went downstairs and took a flashlight and began inspecting above all of the new drywall ceilings I had installed in and around our theater to see if any wires were smoldering, fried, or glowing. Nope. Nothing. The wires were nice and cool. I was concerned that I may have driven and nail or a screw through one of the A/C control wires while I was constructing our theater. An inspection by a heating and cooling technician yesterday revealed that all of the wires were fine. It was the reversing valve in our heat pump that had failed. It was stuck in the "Heat" position and the system labored to try and move it to the "Cool" position. But, all of the electronics in the heat pump unit outside burned-up and that is what shorted-out the thermostat. $$$$$ So, there are two guys putting in a shiny-new A/C unit with scroll-type compressor outside my house right now. We are all done with heat pumps. They were a good idea 20 years ago when they saved money (electricity was cheaper) and energy, but now it's cheaper to heat with gas, as we'd been doing by running the pump in the Auxilliary mode for the last few years. The new unit will be much more quiet, too. So, now when we sit on our deck, we'll be able to talk while it's running. Why this is relavent to the forum: For me, the scariest part of all of this is the idea that you are really covering up a lot of vital access to things when you drywall a basement ceiling while building a theater! Now, I did install a suspended ceiling over most of the room to allow me access to plumbing and other important things. But who can possibly think of everything, such as a measly thermostat control wire? I was lucky this time: ours is okay. But, I never thought it might become a fire hazzard! I'm glad they now make wireless thermostats! I might need one someday! -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD1032 Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 What a story! LOL...guess switching a flaming thermostat off "cool" is the appropriate thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Phew! Glad to hear that nothing major happened to your house. . But at least you know one thing, your ticker is still working well... I'm sure the blood pressure was a tad high there for a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Glad it all worked out. I had a 12" desk fan that siezed and started smoking (plastic and grease around motor got REALLY hot) and was probably a few minuites from catching on fire - I ran in the house for a minuite to get something, and smelled it. Close call. I took the fan out back and smashed it with some 3/8" rebar - I hated the fan anyway, it was the cheapest, hardest to use thing ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted April 22, 2004 Author Share Posted April 22, 2004 All: Thanks! That was a close one. Luckily, I was a Federal firefighter at the Naval Air Base out in Fallon, Nevada many years ago, so the knowledge and skills I'd aquired back then usally come flooding back to me immediately and help me get through the immediate crisis, without too much "ticker-factor". A good test of this was back in 1990 during an electical service upgrade (from 100 to 150 Amp) at my house when my electrician electrocuted himself on our service entrance cable where it comes in from the power pole and meets the weather head on the riser above the meter box. The second it happened, I was on him like "stink on sh*t!" He was a goner (code blue), but with the assistance of my next door neighbor, we had the guy wanting to sit up less than 5 minutes later just as the fire trucks arrived! Immediately, after is was all over with and gone, I got the shakes really bad from the adrenalin rush. ...Ah, the good old days! After a week in the hospital the guy was fine. The HVAC crew installed the new A/C unit yesterday and did an excellent job. No more heat pump, no more reversing valves and hopefully, no more fires! MD1032: Actually, switching the flaming thermostat to "OFF" only waisted time, as the 24 volts was still coming to the stat from the transformer downstairs, so the transistor continued to burn until I killed the power to the furnace transformer downstairs. That transformer has since been removed. It was for the heat pump's reversing valve controller. We no longer have a heat pump, just a regular A/C unit. -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 what do you use for heat now. since heat pumps do both. I have a heat pump in my house i think they suck. Glad everything turned out ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 ---------------- On 4/22/2004 7:51:42 AM picky-picky wrote: All: A good test of this was back in 1990 during an electical service upgrade (from 100 to 150 Amp) at my house when my electrician electrocuted himself on our service entrance cable where it comes in from the power pole and meets the weather head on the riser above the meter box. The second it happened, I was on him like "stink on sh*t!" He was a goner (code blue), but with the assistance of my next door neighbor, we had the guy wanting to sit up less than 5 minutes later just as the fire trucks arrived! Immediately, after is was all over with and gone, I got the shakes really bad from the adrenalin rush . ...Ah, the good old days! After a week in the hospital the guy was fine. -Picky ---------------- Picky-Wow! What a weekend! I'm glad you and yours are all ok. I had the same thing happen to me last spring when I happened across a horrible multiple car/semi gravel-hauler accident. Fortunately, there were no casualties, but I did help pull the trucker out of his truck through his windshield and then someone else out of a burning car. The impact of the accident had basically sealed the doors shut, but we were finally able to get the passenger door open and slide him out that way. I got the shakes after things settled down a bit. It's amazing how time slows down when your adrenaline gets pumping like that. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted April 22, 2004 Author Share Posted April 22, 2004 dantfmly: Back in the 1980's when they recommended installing heat pumps to "save energy and money" (big mistake!) the heat pump was used in warm weather for cooling and in cold weather it was used to heat the house until temps fell below 36 to 39 degrees. Then, the natural gas furnace took over. Well, in years gone by, it became a lot more expensive to heat with electricitythan gas, so we've been running our system in "Auxilliary Heat" mode, which locks out the heat pump and just runs the gas furnace. So now, we had the heat pump removed and an A/C-only unit installed for summer cooling. For heat, we are still using the existing, perfectly good gas furnace. I agree: Heat Pumps SUCK!! dkp: Congratulations! You're a HERO! We can certainly use more people like you! Way to go for getting involved and helping to save some lives! Part of my training as a firefighter was to attend both automobile and aircraft extracation school (removing people from wrecks). A lot of people are unaware that the weakest window in a car is the back window. It's the easiest to shatter without tools and it is usually large enough to get victims out of the vehicle if they are not pinned. You are right: time seems like slow motion during such an occurance. Amazing, isn't it? Thanks for sharing your story! -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Yea........nothing like getting all your cells polarized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 ---------------- On 4/22/2004 1:41:55 PM picky-picky wrote: dkp: Congratulations! You're a HERO! We can certainly use more people like you! Way to go for getting involved and helping to save some lives! Part of my training as a firefighter was to attend both automobile and aircraft extracation school (removing people from wrecks). A lot of people are unaware that the weakest window in a car is the back window. It's the easiest to shatter without tools and it is usually large enough to get victims out of the vehicle if they are not pinned. You are right: time seems like slow motion during such an occurance. Amazing, isn't it? Thanks for sharing your story! -Picky ---------------- Picky-No, I'm not a hero. The story sounds pretty neat, but these guys would have been okay if I had not been there. It was more a case of me just helping out... David P.S. GO WINGS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 ---------------- On 4/22/2004 1:41:55 PM picky-picky wrote: dantfmly: Back in the 1980's when they recommended installing heat pumps to "save energy and money" (big mistake!) the heat pump was used in warm weather for cooling and in cold weather it was used to heat the house until temps fell below 36 to 39 degrees. Then, the natural gas furnace took over. Well, in years gone by, it became a lot more expensive to heat with electricitythan gas, so we've been running our system in "Auxilliary Heat" mode, which locks out the heat pump and just runs the gas furnace. So now, we had the heat pump removed and an A/C-only unit installed for summer cooling. For heat, we are still using the existing, perfectly good gas furnace. I agree: Heat Pumps SUCK!! ---------------- Picky: i don't have anything like that for my heat pump. the fan unit up in the attic has electric coils in it, so that when the temperature drops to low for the heat pump to heat the house, the electric coils kick on to add extra heat. i think there is three that kick on one by one as needed. But here electricity is less expensive then gas. I just had a new one put in a little over a year ago (4 g's no less wish i could have put that in to my system) and my electric bills went from $300 to $100 in the peak months. The old one was about 12 years old though, and the compressor gave out it was going to be $700 just to replae that. We said no way not for a twelve year old system, and just got a whole new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 dkp: Okay, maybe not, but you are still a Good Samaritan! ..and that's great! Thanks, but the Wings didn't do so well last night. dantfmly: Yeah, I used to live in VA Beach, too and the climate is much more mild down there in the winter than it is here in the "Great White North". The heat-loss isn't as quick there so electric heat is nearly as efficient as gas heat due to the cost. But up here, few homes rely on electric heat because of the heat loss through the walls due to the extremely cold temperatures. If it was 10 degrees, the electric heat would never shut off because it couldn't keep up with the loss. That is why our heat pump systems here generally have a gas backup for temps below 36 to 39 degrees. And the heat pumps here do not have electric coils like yours. Instead, they use a reversing valve that makes the hot exhaust from the compressor flow back into the house for warmth from the coils in the top of the furnace, while exhausting the cooled air outside. Of course, in the summer, the valve switches making the opposite effect happen: cold air into the house and vent the hot air outside. Few people today here in Michigan get new heat pumps put in up here. They just are no longer practicle as compared with natural gas, which has many more BTU's for heating. -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 double post sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Picky: I can't wait to move back up to the great white somewhat north. Indianapolis. That is where i am from and i would like to go back. My wife is from here in Virginia Beach. So i don't know if that will happen. I can always hope though. -Jeremiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 dantfmly: You and are have been in similar situations. I know that you are currently in the Navy and serving in VAB, and your wife is a local native. When I was in the Navy and serving in Fallon, Nevada, I too, met and married my wife; a local native of Fallon. We remained there for 2-1/2 years after I was discharged (I was there a total of 6-1/2 years) before we pulled up stakes and moved back here to my home of Michigan. The job market was better here and I really missed home. Funny, now I miss the mountains and the openess of the high desert back in Fallon. ....You just can't win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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