Bob_Collins Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I'm in the market for a subwoofer to add to my system. I want something that goes down below 20 HZ, and is accurate and clean. Quality is more important than quantity. The room size is about 12x24 with vaulted ceilings (peak is about 16 feet high). My main speakers are Klipsch RF-7s, RC-7 center, and the surrounds are also RF-7s. The rear speakers for those few soundtracks that support DTS-ES or DD-EX, are Klipsch Fortes. My budget is enough to buy the new Paradigm Signature Servo (approx. $3000). My top choice I was thinking might be the Velodyne DD 15, as I like the idea of being able to easily and quickly EQ the sub to flatten out and room resonance or bring up any "holes" in the room also. But I also like the Signature Servo. It seems quite capable. I've also considered the Paradigm Servo 15 (substantially less costly), but would like to know how to properly EQ a sub that does not have the EQ circuitry internally? How time consuming is it to do? How expensive to do it externally to the sub? One other sub that looks interesting is the Sunfire True Subwoofer EQ Signature, which also has the EQ circuitry internally, and can automatically perform said EQ. I'm looking for guidance here fellas, if you had the same amount to spend ($3000, give or take a few hundred), what would go with? I would consider SVS, but am not too keen on the idea of having to pay shipping in either direction should I not like it. Suggestions, opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jephdood Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I dunno. I have a HSU and I like it, but it's not anywhere near the range you're talking about. And I understand your hesitation, but from everything I've heard and read, the SVS PB2 Ultra does not disappoint in that price range. What are your main uses? HT? Music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Collins Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 Main use will be for HT, however it has to be accurate and capable for music also. I'm picky about music. Not an audiophile, but picky. I don't like boomy bass, just to be boomy. I am of the school of thought that the subwoofer should not be noticed, but rather the lack of it should be noticed (at least with music). It should enhance, not overpower the music. I don't need to spend the whole bundle on a sub, would be willing to spend less and get other things too, like whatever i would need to accurately and easily EQ the sub, maybe a 2 channel amp, or some gadget i don't really need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 you could get 2 RSW-15's and an RSW-12 or 3 RSW-15's for 3,500-3,600ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 ---------------- On 5/17/2004 10:33:03 PM prodj101 wrote: you could get 2 RSW-15's and an RSW-12 or 3 RSW-15's for 3,500-3,600ish ---------------- ---------------- On 5/17/2004 8:55:05 PM Bob_Collins wrote: I want something that goes down below 20 HZ,..................... ---------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor.Ham.Slap Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 ---------------- On 5/17/2004 10:39:31 PM sivadselim wrote: ---------------- On 5/17/2004 10:33:03 PM prodj101 wrote: you could get 2 RSW-15's and an RSW-12 or 3 RSW-15's for 3,500-3,600ish ---------------- ---------------- On 5/17/2004 8:55:05 PM Bob_Collins wrote: I want something that goes down below 20 HZ,..................... ---------------- ---------------- Are you kidding?! 3 RSW-15's will have plenty of output below 20Hz, not to mention that would be damn clean... Ear's tower of slam would be put to shame by the new tower on the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 ---------------- Are you kidding?! 3 RSW-15's will have plenty of output below 20Hz, not to mention that would be damn clean... Ear's tower of slam would be put to shame by the new tower on the block. ---------------- 3 rsw15 will have MAD punch above 30hz! what is the point of having 105-110db of sub-20hz punch when u have 130 db of post-30hz punch??? ur going to need to equalize your "tower" to say the least. there is no point in getting 3 rsw-15 just to get decent 20hz punch, go for the SVS pb2-ultra or the b4+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Collins Posted May 18, 2004 Author Share Posted May 18, 2004 Can't really say I'm overly impressed with Klipsch subs, especially those of the past. One other sub that looks good from the reviews is the Kleiss S15A, as reviewed in the June 2004 Stereophile Ultimate AV mag. Again, if I wind up going with something that does have the EQ ability internally, can someone tell me what I need, and how to best accomplish the same thing on a sub that does not have that capability? Thanks everyone so far for your input, as I said before, I am looking to you guys for guidance here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 SVS PB2-Ultra, hands down. Reaches well below 20Hz, has a PEQ built in and some of the best quality drivers (TC Sounds) money can buy. You can also have custom finishes on the cabinet. I can say first hand that the SVS's blend well with Klipsch speakers. I would have the Ultra instead of the PB2+ if my budget allowed. The PB2+ is an incredible sub and the Ultra one up's it. Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 "3 RSW-15's will have plenty of output below 20Hz" no, they won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Well bob, you can't bring up any holes caused by destructive interference ( cancellation ). You can however tame peaks in the response, and get a flatter fr. However, when you eq in one spot, the fr is affected in other areas as well. IE: if you tame a peak at one listening position, then you are surely adding peaks at another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 "3 RSW-15's will have plenty of output below 20Hz" no, they won't ???? According to the review "the subwoofers under the christmas tree", the klipsch rsw 15 was the most potent subwoofer, other than dual Svs Ultra's. One Rsw 15 belted out 93 db at 20 hz, while the much larger cs ultra's ( w/ samson 1000 watt amp ) belted out 110 db. Two rsw 15's stacked could do 99 db at 20 hz. If that isn't loud enough, than I think that you need help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Michael makes a good point. That's a LOT of bass. It's also a very good article from '01. The article points out the reason that SVS is becoming so popular. If you stacked 2 RSW-15's (MSRP $3600.00) you would still have less output than the SVS CS-Ultra set up(MSRP $2295.00). The down side is that you can not go and audition one like you could the Klipsch. Also, even though you can return it you are responsible for freight (theyr'e not light!) Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 he said below 20hz. i have an rsw15. i love it. but i know what it can do below 20hz, too. not much. 110db is about 50x more intense than 93dB, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 pinipig, you underestimate the RSW-15...maybe due to the fact that you don't have one, or know very much about them...probably both. you knock them constantly, and with each post you show more ignorance on the subject. In tom nousaines testing a single RSW-15 was actually capable of 97 db at 20 hz, very potent indeed. at a price of around $1,200, this is very competitive with all consumer subwoofers. the CS ultras are in another price range at $2,100. depending on room gain, the RSW-15 is a fierce subwoofer capable of handling 99.9% of the material thrown at it. I am aware that a B4 plus will out do it, but look at the price differences. pushing $4,000 vs. $1,200, it damn well better out do it. If you're going to be spending that much I would seriously look into the Aerial Acoustics subs, they are considerded to be some of the most accurate subs made (in every area) and are flat below 20 hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 What guidande can you ask for from people who own a few Klipsch and SVS? LOL You are looking at a sub around $3000 that will match with ANY large speakers,perform music duty with finesse and have mad output down low when called upon.Or serve as a killer HT sub,with giant output and refined when needed... Enter the Revel B15. This subwoofer has RSW15 punch and output greater than dual Sunfire Signature subs down low!!! Yes you read right,it bests the HGS18 in output,and features a three band parametric EQ so you can fine tune the sub to make a PERFECT match with the mains. The Revel B15 is overall my fave sub,and I have the Velodyne HGS18,Revel B15,Sunfire Signature/Mark II and Super Junior plus the RSW15/12 and the 10.Yes I have them all,not a cheapo BS comparo made in some murky shop down by the river. You value the money spent,you must audition and test the Revel B15 yourself.Or else you miss one of the better buys is super subwooferdom. I know subwoofers,and the B15 is a BIG value even at $3000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 prodj, sure the rsw-15 is able to do 97db at 20hz - but for the same price, the SVS PB2+ can do 110-113 @ 20hz. so what is your point? u say that i have never heard the rsw-15 - but i have. have u heard the svs - any svs? probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Collins Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 ---------------- On 5/18/2004 8:40:11 PM TheEAR wrote: You are looking at a sub around $3000 that will match with ANY large speakers,perform music duty with finesse and have mad output down low when called upon.Or serve as a killer HT sub,with giant output and refined when needed... ---------------- Ear, you hit on the head exactly the qualities I am seeking, and my goal (to get the most for the money spent). I will definitely give a look and find a dealer to give a listen to the Revel B15. Just a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind. First, does this sub have a connection to the TV to produce the visual graph out, or do I use a sound meter to calibrate it manually? Also, how do you compare the Revel against the Paradigm Signature Servo? Do you know anything about the Kleiss S15A? And finally, just how important is it to EQ the sub for the flattest response? Michael Hurd mentioned earlier that: ---------------- if you tame a peak at one listening position, then you are surely adding peaks at another. ---------------- With this being the case, should I be worried about having that EQ circuitry like the Velodyne DD, or even trying to manually EQ it at all? Sorry to be so clueless here, but this will be my first sub, and I want to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Am I the only one who gets a little tired of the "supposedly kiddding" condescending tone of the Ear person? I hope not. All opinions matter when it comes to such a hard to measure subject called sound. In any case, you should audition all you can and bring your own material to your dealer for a constant. Also, there is a website you can visit in order to get in touch with those who own SVS for a possible demo meet. I'm sure they'd be happy to accomodate you. Price wise, you can't usually go wrong with SVS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Collins Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 I didn't find Ear's response to be condescending in the least (towards me anyway). I welcome ALL opinions, and will audition as many as I can, but will definietly avoid those ultra-low-end boxes that most large retailers call subwoofers which are in point of fact, woofers (won't hit the low frequencys that a true, capabale subwoofer will). Which brings me to another question regarding the Revel that TheEar suggested. Will it dig low and deep (below 20 Hz. like many of the others will, say down to 16 Hz or even 11 Hz which is the lower end of what the Signature Servo is spec'd to do)? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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