minn_male42 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 ---------------- On 5/20/2004 6:47:15 PM kenratboy wrote: ---------------- On 5/20/2004 12:53:05 AM wheelman wrote: I am screwed because my wiring isn't to good in my home. When the air conditioner runs everthing just sort of pauses for a second every now and then. Light dims ext. When the outdoor light comes on I hear a slight static sound for a second and then it's gone. I really need to upgrade my electrical wiring.---------------- Wheelman - you MIGHT benefit from one of the Monster power centers ($200 minimum, or $400 for a bigger one that sits on the component rack). They are supposed to eliminate or reduce all those issues. However, I do not know if it will actually work. Anyone? ---------------- to overcome the paower sag that wheelman described you need to get some sort of ups unit.... the monster power units that you listed will not cure the momentary power drop.... a ups large enough to take care of an entire audio/video system will probably run almost $1000..... tripplite has some very nice units that work well with audio applications.... http://tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2475 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauRus Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 ---------------- On 5/20/2004 5:06:51 PM popbumper wrote: EVERYTHING is relative. Popbumper, is your real name Einstein? Enjoyed your post immensely, especially your way of clarifying the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 "Really, what is my point? EVERYTHING is relative. NO two/three/five/seven speakers driven by any number of amps in forty-five different settings in seventeen listening positions in rooms of varying temperature listened to with EARS of 437 different people are going to sound the same. Even better? NO IDENTICAL set of components/speakers in the SAME room are going to perform EXACTLY the same, reagrdless of how careful you are to meet all the conditions!" perhaps you were not reading all of my posts..... there is a simple way to establish an IDENTICAL SET of conditions...... DO THE TEST IN THE SAME ROOM - WITH THE SAME EQUIPMENT! that's what a double blind test does.... leave everything else exactly the same and have someone else switch the cables so you don't know which cable is being used on any particular test....... power cable advocates refuse to do these tests because they reveal that their precious high-buck cables do not sound any different than the $5 cable that came with the amp/component..... you can talk about variability and margins of error all you want.... but if you can't prove that you can hear a difference in a series of double blind tests then there is no difference...... and telling someone that if they hear a difference then "good for you" is patronizing as well as providing no help for someone contemplating a purchase of these pieces of audio jewelry..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Well i am going to have family members check it out this summer. See if it might all be connected to one curcuit do hicky thingy. Anyhow i heard running high current amps the last thing you want to do is run a line conditioner power do hicky. It will limit the flow of current? IN COMING!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 ---------------- On 5/20/2004 8:58:09 PM wheelman wrote: Well i am going to have family members check it out this summer. See if it might all be connected to one curcuit do hicky thingy. Anyhow i heard running high current amps the last thing you want to do is run a line conditioner power do hicky. It will limit the flow of current? IN COMING!! ---------------- in your situation you have a choice..... a) expose your equipment to power sags (brownouts) and the possible consequences or possibly limit current to your amp by using a ups/line conditioner you need to find out before you choose...... what is the maximum current draw of your amp and all of your components combined??? if it less than 15 amps, then the tripplite unit that i listed above will not restrict any current....... if you are close to 15 amps then just get a unit rated for 20 amps and you will have no problems..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I can have my whole home rewired for practically nothing. Do you think this would help. I don't have a grand for that component. I know good people that are willing to help. Thanks minn male Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 modern wiring with a good circuit breaker box would be a great idea..... make sure that you run 20 amp lines for your home theater/audio system..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 ---------------- On 5/20/2004 9:43:27 PM minn_male42 wrote: modern wiring with a good circuit breaker box would be a great idea..... make sure that you run 20 amp lines for your home theater/audio system..... ---------------- Thanks again. I will see what happens later this year and recomend what you said. Much appriciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Good to see plenty of rational members offering realistic explanations of the relevance of the power cord in the scope of a power grid. I fully agree. Wheelman: Other items worth checking are the exterior connections (between pole and the home's aerial as well as between the aerial and the home). I seen it happen several times in our urban climate as it's not unusual to have corrosion form on those exterior connectors due to weather and pollution. Depending on where you live, those connections may be maintained by the home owner or the electrical company... so you'd have to call and find out. You could also have someone check the home's ground... as it too came get corroded. later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Thanks Formica. I don't even think i have a ground LOL. I mean none of the outlets are but two. I live on a hill. Not really urban, but certainly not a small hill. I have a pine tree that might corrode things. I know it isn't good for the shingles. I will keep everything in mind. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popbumper Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Minn_male 42: In reference to your statements: 1) power cable advocates refuse to do these tests because they reveal that their precious high-buck cables do not sound any different than the $5 cable that came with the amp/component..... >>TRUE. I never disagreed with this. 2) you can talk about variability and margins of error all you want.... but if you can't prove that you can hear a difference in a series of double blind tests then there is no difference...... >>ALSO TRUE. The ONLY way you could POSSIBLY do this is to market your cables from setup to setup. MEANING: If a company wanted to "tout" their wares, and show that their cables were an improvement over YOUR cables, they would have to come to YOUR home, and hook them up in YOUR setup. WHY? NO manufacturer is going to have a demo room/setup identical to yours. I mean, IDENTICAL, accounting for the complete environment of YOUR room, with all of its fixtures, and all of your equipment. This is an impossibility. Therefore, "you can talk about prov(ing) that you can hear a difference in a series of double blind tests" all you want, but nobody is going to be able to do it in an uncontrolled environment. That is, unless a manufacturer will allow you to TRY their $1000 cables out (ya, right), or you want to go to the trouble of CHANGING all your cables out just to do the test. Unlikely. 3) and telling someone that if they hear a difference then "good for you" is patronizing as well as providing no help for someone contemplating a purchase of these pieces of audio jewelry..... >>Not sure if this was directed at me or a manufacturer. Regardless, it's yet another example of "buyer beware". NOBODY MAKES you purchase their wares, OR makes you BELIEVE what they say. If a company has a "golden" marketing campaign, and plenty of "testimonial backers" to boot, YOU must decide whether it is believeable. Note the word "YOU". If "Joe X" loves his Heresys, and you think they suck, who's wrong? People freely ask all the time whether someone thinks something is good. Heck, even I asked for recommendations here, and I'm glad I did! Does this mean that any product I personally think is good for ME is sonically superior to anything else? Um, no....I don't have a pair of calibrated ears with flat response from 20Hz to 20KHz, nor does anyone else. Therefore, "you can talk about patronizing and providing no help" all you want, but if you like something, and believes it makes a sonic benefit to you, and convince someone else that it does, reagrdless of their "reaction", are you wrong? Are they wrong? Seriously, I am not advocating misrepresentation or misleading anyone in any way. I KNOW there are plenty of snake oil salesmen out there, there are rip-off artists everywhere. I personally think there is a lot of fluff is esoteric audio wires and such. I do not endorse them nor would I encourage others to. However, if someone told me that their $100 power cord made a difference in their system, are they wrong? Would I judge them for it? No - and it also means I will not be buying one soon. Why? Why bother? The main points I wanted to make are: 1) Everything is relative 2) YOU are responsible for your own choices 3) Opinions are, well, I don't need to say.... 4) People buy THINGS of all sorts every day to make their lives better. Some do it blindly; some are influenced by advertising; some do it based on others opinions. Which one of these categories do you or I fit in? If I told you, would I be judged accordingly? Everyone has their own standards..... Popbumper (not Einstein, as Taurus suggested ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench_peddler Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If your amp is operating at 100% and needing more power and the power cord is only allowing 90% of what is available at the wall, yes, a better cord will improve the sound. I never run my amps at 100%, my 90% cord is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench_peddler Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Forgot to mention, I don't ride a Harley so I am not changing the cord simply for looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I have a thought. And since it happens so infrequently, I thought I'd share it with you all. There's got to be at least one electrician on the forum, no? And I would guess that said electrician would have a DVOM that could conceivably have a Min-Max lock for AC amps, no? Couldn't said DVOM be set up into the power cord of their system to record Max readings, then have some material with substantial low frequency energy, which I assume would require the highest current flow to reproduce, played at a high db level, and check what the Max current flow actually is? I realize this number would vary from system to system, but would at least give a starting point. I mean, I doubt there would be a 200% change from one system to another, though I suppose it's possible. If the Max current flow comes out at only 10 amps with 120 or more db of sound being produced, shouldn't the average quality power cord be able to do that? Start up power for an average refridgerator is roughly 2000 watts, or 16.6 amps on a 120v circuit, and they don't have any fancy power cords for the required current flow. Plug in a 2400 watt hair dryer to the circuit; 2400watts/120volts=20amps. If your circuit will power that continuosly, it should certainly be able to some transients that high. Then again, our electrician may find that average flow is 15 amps, with 30 or 40 amps on peaks, which may be restrained by an inferior power cord. It wouldn't necessarly blow the breaker, since they are a slow blow type circuit. Come on Mr Electrician, lets see some real world current flow numbers for a system when it's belting out some tunes!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 You guys really got me goin' on the audiophile circuit breaker thing.I bet there are plenty(at least a few)people out there that would believe my gold plated screw and superior poly-isolated casing blah ba de blah would offer much lower lows,max mids and way higher highs.Oh well,to each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Fish nice collection of axes. Keepen that marshall warm I hope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 ---------------- On 5/21/2004 6:57:03 PM Champagne taste beer budget wrote: played at a high db level, and check what the Max current flow actually is? I realize this number would vary from system to system, but would at least give a starting point. I mean, I doubt there would be a 200% change from one system to another, though I suppose it's possible. ---------------- I'm not an electrician, but Ohm's law dictates P=V*I but it assumes a perfect power amplifier. In other words, P = total power produced including heat. We can make assumptions of the % of heat produced. I quote: "The Mobile Electronics Certification Program (MECP) lists two: RMS/voltage and RMS x 2/voltage. The second method doubles the RMS power before dividing by voltage, in an effort to compensate for the power wasted by the amplifier in the form of heat (up to 50%). Many sources, including The Crutchfield Guide to Car Stereo Installation, cite the RMS x 2/voltage standard, but amplifier efficiency varies from model to model (especially with Class D design amps). The MECP states: " is perfectly adequate for a system to operate safely." Here are a couple of 100% efficient to 50% efficient current calculations: 0.5A = 30W to 60W 2.5A = 150W to 300W 5A = 300W to 600W 10A = 600W to 1200W 15A = 900W to 1800W 20A = 1200W to 2400W Note that 500W of heat production is the same as a 30inch electric baseboard running at it's maximum while 1000W is like a 48inch unit . Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas42 Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I'll only do this for forum members as I don't want to start a business, per se'...BUT, for those so interested, if you will send me your power cords (and say, hmmm, $50.00) I will freeze them around pure Texas spring water, which will "counter-charge" any electrons passing through them giving your signal (and thus your music) a "palpable openess" you've never heard before. Results are 100% guaranteed. If you don't hear a difference, all you have to do is prove you don't.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 ---------------- On 5/20/2004 1:52:18 PM Trey Cannon wrote: But if you really want to make it sound better, put your cheep power cord on stilts to keep it off the floor...Now that makes a big difference.... ---------------- Dats right. Dats right. Im one a dem Cool Guys Trey mentioned. Im happenin, baby. Gots me summa dem boutique power cords. I be juicin tonight, baby. Lectricity so bright, I GOTS to wear shades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 There is a fine line between upgrading and complete insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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