RAPTORMAN Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Audio experts-- I need your opinion about a Harman Kardon citation 2. I can pick one up from a local dealer in mint condition with original HK tubes KT88--original box and manual for 1000.00USD. What's your take on this folks?? How do you think would this match up with my 91 Khorns?? GOOD DEAL OR BAD DEAL???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Ones in good condition go on ebay for around 600-750 bucks normally. Even if it is in perfect "mint" condition it is still WISE to go for one of the upgrade kits provided now for them on the aftermarket in order to get the most outta them without having to worry about things down the road or in the immediate future. They have arguably the best power supplies ever made, but which have not been available for over 30 years, which is why these units get gutted for those power supplies to be put into new builds all the time. These units came out in the 50's originally, and put H/K "on the map" of the audio world. They are also the first units H/K made utilizing their trademark ultra-wide-band frequency response designs. The main down-side to them is that the tubes used have not been made in quite a while...so you are limited to using NOS tubes for them...and that means bucks! But, then again, there is always that possibility that they may go into manufacture on those tubes again someday, if there is enough demand for them. They test out pretty damned flat on frequency response, and tend not to "color" the music anywhere much in the spectrum...but some folks would rather have a tube amp that "colors" the music to what they expect tubes to do, instead of just enjoying the better accuracy of uncolored music. They were rated at 60wpc when new...that's quite a few tube watts there. They outta be great with any of the Klipsch Heritage speakers! I like em...alot! I also like the Citation V amp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Ditto on the gutting - I have heard the same. Doesn't say much when you are worth more for your parts than as a working whole (no jokes please ). Get an Eico HF-81 for less than half that for starters if you want one of the best vintage amps around. It even has a nice face. You can play with tubes much more cheaply than with KT88's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Grab it. I've seen MINT Citation II's bring more than $1500. If it has original GEC KT88's and they test good (quite possible) - It's a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I was out looking for the 12BY7A tubes last night. As usual, Andy's right -- and there doesn't seem to be a current production version of the tube. However, there sure doesn't seem to be any shortage of these things on the NOS side, because I found them just about everywhere -- ranging in price from $10 to $15 each. Ned at Triode Electronics has them, as well as Brent Jesse. http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/otpopsmaltub.html http://www.audiotubes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Dean, those tubes not being in manufacture anymore is a two-edged sword. IOW, if they never go back into manufacture, then eventually the supplies of NOS will dry up...BUT...since the vast majority of available new or used popular tubed equipment doesn't utilize those tubes to begin with, and since there are plentiful supplies of NOS ones CURRENTLY at reasonable prices in many cases, it MAY BE AWHILE before those supplies dry up...and by that time the prices will have escalated and will more easily justify going back into profitable production of them. So, IMHO, even though those tubes are not CURRENTLY in production, that in itself is not reason enough to forego a purchase of that amp solely for that reason. IOW...IMHO...grab up the amp, install the upgrade kit, and buy up a bunch of high-quality NOS tubes for it NOW (while they are still affordable)...just in case! Folks who have never heard a Citation II or Citation V amp in proper working order, with good upstream components and good ole horns are in for a real eye-opener! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 For the last 24hrs. I have been on the net looking for any information about HARMAN KARDON CITATION II. All good things has been said about this amp. Most audiophiles love the Citation II-- on the same token most of them have some kind of modification done to it. The 12BY7 (small pentodes) use for this amp is out of production--although Ebay has a few of them. According to a website, a possible substitute is the Svetlana SV83--but requires modification (pinouts are different) a good tech would be a wise choice to do this mod. I'm sure there is a forum member who might be able to help me with this one in the future. Thanks for all the inputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Talk to NOSValves.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 There is a guy who frequents the Audio Asylum who has a mod kit for Citation II's he makes up for sale...he also installs them. He is a Citation II/Citation V freak and just loves them to death! So, his mods are designed to get the absolute best out of them! I can't remember his name off-hand, but all you gotta do is post in Vintage or Tubes there with a heading that says something like "Upgrades for H/K Citation II?" and you will end up finding out how to get in touch with him pretty quickly. He is reasonable and highly-recommended for both his kits and his work. You can just get a kit and have one of our forum guys put it in, or have him put it in, or do it yourself. That is MY recommendation if you get a Citation II or Citation V. Personally, I would love to see what Craig has to say after getting in a good Citation II and trying it out after installing one of those kits in it! It would make some good interesting reading here on this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/citpage.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Thanks, Guy...that's him! He can also suggest the best tube preamps besides the Citation units for those amps if you decide you don't want to go with the preamps H/K originally designed to pair up with those amps. You might say Mr. McShane is the resident Citation II/V "guru" over at the Asylum! I have never seen any complaints about his kits/work/recommendations for those units yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Just curious, slightly off-topic. There is a HK Citation 12 available just a few miles from my office. These trannies and big PS caps look like a pretty nice build quality. Any idea what this amp is worth and how it sounds? I have an old McIntosh MX113 in my uncle's basement that I might mate with it and KG4's if it is a good deal. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5741333433 Thanks for your help! Chris _______________________________ Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable w/ Goldring Eroica H MC Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CDP with 24 bit/192 KHz Upsampling Wright Sound WPP-100C Phono Stage JF Lessard Pantheon 6SN7 SRPP Preamp w/ RCA 5R4GY & Sylvania 6SN7 JF Lessard Horus Parafeed Cobalt 2A3 SET Monoblocks w/ Tung Sol 5687 & AVVT 2A3 1976 KCBR Klipschorns with ALK Crossovers Gear Online: Two Channel & Home Theater Systems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 RAPTORMAN If you're worried about tube supplies in the future, just purchase a few spares (assuming you get the amp), verify they're good, then keep them. I have a lifetime supply of very good NOS E88CC preamp tubes for my pp amps for just that reason. If you're still on the fence, I'd go for the amp. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 The Citation 12 was a medium power (60 wpc) dual mono solid state amp from the middle to late seventies. They were extremely well thought of in their day and were a recommended amp to use with Klipsches. They've become kind of a "sleeper" nowadays. I bought the delux version with a Citation 11 preamp and wood cases for $120. They generally go in the $80 to $150 range. The Citation II is a heckuva amp. They do run quite warm - at least compared to contemporary Mac and Marantz units - and can go through output tubes pretty rapidly. A small fan might be in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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