cjgeraci Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 Just wanted to give a thanks to the many who frequent this section, including Artto, formica, griffinator, champagne, michael hurd, and others (you know who you are). All of the discussions and suggestions in this section have been extremely helpful to me in getting my room where I want it to be. As I recently posted in two-channel and HT, my various panels have made the most improvement in my room's overall sound. Far above different separates, speakers, universal player, crossovers, etc. Just wished I had done this years ago. Oh well, live and learn. To all others out there. Its been said over and over, but it rings true. Don't just spend money on your gear. Research acoustics like you would any other piece of equipment and put some serious money into it. You will not regret it. Enough talking. Enclosed are pics of my Minitraps, Microtraps (RealTraps)and other various covered 703 panels. Carl. P.S. You can run Reference sevens in a small awkward-shaped room. It just takes a bit of doing..... Not pictured is my ceiling panel for early reflections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 6, 2004 Author Share Posted June 6, 2004 More pics. Carl. P.S. I really enjoyed F. Alton Everest's, Master Handbook of Acoustics. It put some of this stuff in layman's terms I could understand. Of course, much of the stuff was above my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 6, 2004 Author Share Posted June 6, 2004 Final pic. Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 Well, I am glad that someone has taken a little advice, and found out for themselves how much the room affects the sound of the system. Colin had posted that he found his room treatments to be one of the best purchases that he has invested in. To borrow a phrase from someone else, the same speaker in a rock cave, a church, a stadium, and an anechoic room, will sound totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 (I think the RealTraps would only work in the cave) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 6, 2004 Author Share Posted June 6, 2004 Ok, I am embarrassed. Of course, thank you to Colin. His review of RealTraps put me over the edge when deciding which direction to go with my treatments. Sometimes, you have a senior moment on a Sunday. And, as expected, Ethan Winer was very helpful with suggestions and recommendations. My bass response is flat as a pancake no matter if I am just running the RF-7s or adding the stacked SVS subs. Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Carl, would it be possible for you to get a couple shots of your ceiling traps in the corners? I've been thinking about doing the same thing and am curious as to how they look when mounted at the angle it would require. TIA if it's possible, won't be back on here till monday to check though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 I only did only one ceiling trap in the rear. I will take a picture of it this weekend and post it. The angle of mine is not probably as severe as you should use, but I had a real bear of a time mounting the minitrap. My wife and I have not decided how we want to finish the ceiling in that room yet, so as a result, I simply have insulation placed in between the joists. Mounting that ceiling trap came down to which joist I was going to use. The minitraps are actually heavier than you would think, and it becomes apparent when you are hanging these things from a ceiling. Aarrgh! I probably could have wrestled another minitrap for use as another ceiling trap. Instead, I ended up mounting another one vertically one on the wall with a spacer, to help get some of the exposure back there. I probably should rethink that and also hang from on the ceiling. More work to do ..... Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Im glad to see youre very happy with the results Carl. When I first joined the Forum, there were many who agreed that room acoustics are important, yet almost all of these same individuals keep swapping equipment to try and achieve better sound. There was even one fella, who shall remain anonymous, who went so far as to say seems to me acoustics would have to go a long way to have the that kind of impact Well, as you have testified, it doesnt have to go a long way, certainly not to the extreme I did, to have substantially more impact than changing any one of the other components. And your panels dont seem intrusive to me at all. There should be good WAF with these (unlike my extreme situation) Acoustics for everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Artto, I have given up choice on carpet color, tile type and color, type and size plank for the wood floors, what type fridge/stove/dishwasher (though I'm still pulling for a Bosch), window shape and placement, fireplace placement, probably paint colors, and I'm sure a dozen other things I can't remember right off the bat in the building of our new home. HOWEVER...I WILL have a dedicated listening room, with whatever treatments I see fit and/or can afford. I while back we were at a church for our 4 yr old daughters final dance recital of the year, the school gym they usually use was tied up or something, and they had many sound absorbing panels in the sanctuary, both on the walls and hung maybe 6 inches out, as well as curved diffusers both on the walls and the ceiling in the gym area where the dances were. I asked my wife what she thought about the looks of both, indicating that I was planning on doing something similar in the listening room, and her comment was something to the effect of "You can do what you want in there, I doubt I'll ever be in there except to vacuum. Everything's a trade off.... I think I'm making a good one. (But I DO want that Bosch dishwasher, unless someone on here has experience with them and would recommend against one.) Granted, I still need a lot of education to get anything even remotely resembling what you've done, and do it correctly, but at least I have a goal to shoot for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 ---------------- On 6/11/2004 6:56:51 PM Champagne taste beer budget wrote: I asked my wife what she thought, and her comment was something to the effect of "You can do what you want in there, I doubt I'll ever be in there except to vacuum. and (But I DO want that Bosch dishwasher, unless someone on here has experience with them and would recommend against one.) ---------------- Thats kind of how my wife looks at it too, although she does join me frequently for listening. You might want to take a look at the Fisher & Paykel "DishDrawer". Thats what we recently put in. If you have a large family or entertain large groups of people you may need more than the typical 2 drawer unit. It's two completely separate dishwashers 'in one'. Actually you can buy two single drawer units & install them on each side of the sink for instance. Or stack the 2 drawer unit where one regular dishwasher goes. Or you could have a two drawer unit on one side & a one or two drawer unit on the other side. It provides a great deal of flexibility in wash loads & types. Delicates or normal stuff in one, pots & pans in the other(s). It's great for smaller loads to get things out of the way. And, it was the only one that had a lower installation height requirement. Something to consider if, for instance, you've had to level the floor for new tile but didn't want to replace the cabinets & countertop, which in some cases (as mine) did not leave enough clearence under the countertop for virtually any other standard dishwasher. Fisher & Paykel's primary business is in medical sanitation equipment used in hospitals. Built real well & quiet. http://usa.fisherpaykel.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 That room actually looks like a great comfy area to sneak away and listen to some tunes or movies. Like mentioned, WAF really isn't bad on those panels. I'm glad some of our tossing around of theories and ideas has been useful in creating your sanctuary. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 Again, thanks to all. Yes, Rob, it is a cozy, comfy place stashed downstairs. Great place to escape, within your own house. My only prohibition is that our two and a half year old son is not allowed to go down here (just yet). Hey, with our new Plasma upstairs, he has enough video/audio toys anyway in the main living area. Oh, by the way, we are on our second Bosch dishwasher. Our last house had one, and surprisingly, there was one already in place when we bought our latest house about two years ago. No negative comments on it. Actually, to the contrary. If you can really, really like a dishwasher.....(ok, stop) I really, really like our Bosch. Our Bosch is minimalist looking, but does looks cool (not overdone with every useless electronic gadgetry there is). Like many simple pre/pros and amps, it has one purpose: cleaning - and it does that very well. Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Champagne: Sorry, I did not get a chance to take additional pics last night. Some family stuff came up. I will get to it in the next day or so. Thanks. Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Artto, we'd looked at the Fisher & Paykel double unit, very nice, agreed, but at $1200 it's twice what we want to spend on a dishwasher. There's a lot of things that would be nice to have, but till we win the lottery we have to TRY and keep the final mortgage somewhat in our means. Carl, no hurry on the pic, whenever you get a chance, we still in the early building stages so I'm not going to be rushing out to buy anything just yet. And thanks for the positive words on the Bosch unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Champagne: Just for grins, I will take a pic and post it of the Bosch unit. I will also see if I can locate a model number on the thing. I know that's getting way off topic, but maybe Klipsch and Amy will give me license just to divert off of the road, even if its in this thread (and not in the general section). I promise to get back on point.... Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Where did you purchase those panels Carl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Did not mean to offend SO SOR Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 RE: Bosch Dishwashers We purchased ours just over 2 years ago. It crapped out after 3 months and was repaired under warranty (switch problem). Then 3 weeks ago the pump failed. Not under warranty. $467 repair bill (the darn part was $400!!). Maybe shoulda got a Miele? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Colin, If you are still tracking this thread, I had a couple of questions. I went back out and re-read your review on RealTraps. That is interesting and from reading this thread, i'm starting to wonder what I'm missing. One thing I noticed in your review is that in addition to quoting prices on RealTrap products you also mentioned Owens-Corning 705-FRK and prices for rigid fiberglass. Is this info for DIYers who want to approximate what RealTrap products do? Also, you have been in my listening room, which also functions as a LR DR in the house. Wish I had a big den or basement room that would be more readily treated acoustically without bringing the WAF of SWMABO into the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Hanging the MiniTrap in the corner is most effective, but a bear, especially compared to the simple 3-second put a picture nail in the wall and plop the Trap down on it picture hanging method you can use for the others, but locating the RealTraps in the corner is apparently more effective I demanded and got 2 rooms in our new house, my den and my office, she can do wants she wants with the rest, I am happy, but she complains about the mess in the HT den, although little miss sensitive ears did NOT say much about the professional looking MiniTraps- I really really like our MayTag, the Consumer Reports repair record, noise level and Autoclean were important to me, the Auto clean senses dirtiness in the outgoing water and reduces the amount of washing if the dishes are clean, CR says feature helps the washer pay for itself in the long run- Ethan does sell the raw Fiberglass for tweaking audiophiles who would like to make the panels themselves, was it Q-man that built some in a wood frame? I know they are expensive, but the thin metal box looks pretty nice for the money- My listening den is open to the kitchen and the back Florida room, but treating the front and side wall made a very big difference in the tightness of the bass, made front-end equipment seem more like quality components- I would measure with a Test CD and SPL meter to get a rough idea what the problems are, after the test with your big ole horns, borrow somebodys small speakers or use another set of loudspeakers and measure again, when you see that both loudspeakers have roughly same dips and bumps, then you are looking at the room problems! I saw this as test after test when seriously auditioning loudspeakers and amplifiers, in my own home, with the same music and equipment, for EnjoyTheMusic.com, revealed the same basic frequency response. The classic Klipsch Khorns, of course, by sitting in the corner and using the room itself exhibited less of this characteristic pattern than conventional cone loudspeakers did (was that Paul W. Klipsch, founder and designer, smart or what?) Do NOT have any clue preacherman, where you could put some Mini (huh! NOT really) Traps, except in the triangle ceiling corners of the front wall, above the classic Klipsch corner Khorns and on left wall, next to the window, if there is room, and on the wall where the stairs are, you dont need much to make a difference, maybe only four- thanks again for the ARK gathering, most life changing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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