ben. Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I own Klipschorns because I got them for $700, and have a tolerant, if not completely understanding spouse. Lucky for me they sound OK, too. Paul, get your knickers untwisted. Tom can give specifics on the performance of more horn speakers than many forum members (including myslef) have even heard. Also, while your sense of humor is occasionally evident, at times it reads as if you are quite serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I would tend to think that tom's comments on Dr bruce would be more accurate, as for pauls comment on khorn owners turning to the old Dr when they want to get more serious i have a simple way of looking at that . First off i've been in retail and the service industry for 23 years now and the one thing i can tell you about human nature when it comes to competition is people olny mention products in a positive or negative manner that posse a threat to there own product. Products that don't rate or are on par or above are seldom ever brought up in conversation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 9:45:14 AM TBrennan wrote: Bruce Edgar said in SpeakerBuilder, in response to a letter seeking advice on modifications, that the best thing one could do with the SpeakerLab cornerhorn was to destroy it. ---------------- Gee, his opinion must really be worth listening to since a Speakerlab K is a verbatim copy of a 1970's Klipschorn. Frankly, I find Edgarhorns to be nothing special nor do they go as low as a corner horn. So what's the point of this comparison? By the way, has Edgar patented anything new or is he just relying on the past work of other (and perhaps more talented) people? DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 Ben, Tom can give his opinions on whatever he wants and nobody ever said otherwise. So don't go making a straw man argument. Tom's not a technical guy, he's a "that sounds good to me" kind of guy. I merely pointed out that his incessant carping about the superiority of JBL, Altec, Edgar, et cetera was essentially trolling. As I asked him on page one: "Any difference between that and going to a Chevy forum and saying Fords are better? And justifying it by saying that we're discussing cars, and Fords are cars too?" I didn't suggest that he stop trolling, merely pointed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 troll1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trl) v. trolled, troll·ing, trolls v. tr. To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat. To fish in by trailing a baited line: troll the lake for bass. To trail (a baited line) in fishing. Slang. To patrol (an area) in search for someone or something: troll bus stations for young runaways (Pete Axthelm). Music. To sing in succession the parts of (a round, for example). To sing heartily: troll a carol. To roll or revolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 No, I think Tom is rather "technical". Go read some of his old posts on AA. I relate to Tom's posts more times than not -- lots of different stuff sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 10:31:54 AM paulparrot wrote: Ben, Tom can give his opinions on whatever he wants and nobody ever said otherwise. So don't go making a straw man argument. Tom's not a technical guy, he's a "that sounds good to me" kind of guy. I merely pointed out that his incessant carping about the superiority of JBL, Altec, Edgar, et cetera was essentially trolling. As I asked him on page one: "Any difference between that and going to a Chevy forum and saying Fords are better? And justifying it by saying that we're discussing cars, and Fords are cars too?" I didn't suggest that he stop trolling, merely pointed it out. ---------------- Seems to me he was pointing out that other speakers are superior at certain things, not everything. It would be more akin to a topic in a Chevy forum about the Cadillac pickup, and how it's got plenty of power and finesse, looks great and all that, then at the end it poses a question inviting comparisons. I think it would be reasonable if someone replied concerning the better towing capability of an F350, or the larger payload of an F150. But then, quite a few of us around here do take pleasure in being contrary, don't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Come to think of, that Caddy would probably get trashed by any self-respecting Chevy fan as well. I suppose it's OK if you don't want the full capability of a truck, and want something the wifey doesn't mind being seen in. To a Duramax owner, I reckon it'd be like comparing a 1.8W amp to 60W of PP.... Different objectives, both appropriate solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorn Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/21/2004 10:13:23 PM AK-4 wrote: I would continue to use the Klipschorns as near-field monitors as I do now. ---------------- Ya know, because of room size restraints that's probably how the majority of Klipschorns are used. I guess for a near-field listening system like in the kitchen, my choice would be something like the BBC spec LS/35a or the new Spendor S3/5se speakers driven by a good high current (probably British) integrated. These speakers have an almost uncanny mid range realism to them. One attribute that both the LS/35a or equivalent speaker and the Klipschorn (talk about opposite ends of the spectrum) have in common is, if you hear a voice or a single instrument like a piano playing on any of these speakers in the next room you could swear the source was actually live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Dr. Bruce Edgars comment was not about the lower cabinet but yes take a chain saw or router... To be more specific, and replace the mid and High drivers / horns and x over. He asked me what I had, I said Klipschorns.... and went into a great 10 min conversation about Paul and his speakers... There was a lot of admiration to the K horn and Paul. At this point I was like well this is refreshing to talk with a competitor that also recognises Pauls speakers too.. I think the next 20 min was spent on "Now here is how I would have improved it.. Blah blah blah...." 30 min later without me even getting a ok, uh, ugh, yep, yes, in a time or two. (Those that know me can understand how hard that was for me too..LOL) He wrote several things written down on my program and I was finally able to get away. (OK, so I was a newbee too all of things technical, but he never asked if I liked my K horns as they were... IMO he was more impressed with himself and how HE would have done this and that.. and to tell me how HE would improve them.) I could be also kind here and just feel he was trying to help me..But I never asked him. LOL I looked at it at the time like this. Take your dream supercar say a Ferrari... your whole life you wanted a stock supercar like this just as it is. You get it home, are extatic with the way it feels, sounds, and performs. Your "car gearhead neighbor" comes over without you even asking and says not bad..... but you need to do this and that and this and that and that should really help your sub par car. The scene was Lima, Ohio at the Midwest Audio Show last year. Not my first time meeting Dr Edgar. I had heard his stuff at other audio shows. He was delivering the full Titan Edgarhorn system with TWO sub boxes to a customer about 20 min from my house. Bottom line is the Edgar stuff is very good. The demo of his sub with a very tiny opening and a 3" full range speaker was unbelievable. Amazing sound and bass!! But the chainsaw / router is a true story... I think Craig and Paul Parrot just laughed at me being cornered by Dr Edgar and unable to get away more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Well OK Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 If one means to be actually informative and useful to this forum, one should detail their experience seriously auditioning, in their own home, with the same music and equipment, any front-end equipment or loudspeaker. To omit such experience is to puff up your opinion and authority. Edgar horns look like they make a good kit, make used classic Klipsch corner Khorns seem like a great bargain, the wood horn idea seems like it might be a natural material for the mid-range, thought I bet I would prefer metal for the high frequencies, since all high frequencies created by acoustic instruments are metal- If I was Paul W. Klipsch, founder of Klipsch and designer of the classic corner Khorn I would certainly feel competitive with Dr. Bruce, more so in fact than Dr. Bose I briefly heard a few money-is-no-object dream systems that rival Arytypes JBL/Alk Khorns, I have also zipped through Bostons windy streets in a red Ferrari roller-skate, which I admit was nicer, but also 21 times more expensive than my 63 MG. Still as each system approaches audio nirvana, and loose anomalies that weaken the sound, the more they sound the same! So that means that are NOT a lot of ways to approach audio nirvana. As you correct the faults of each system, they end up looking more and more like each other! Look at the solid-state powered cone subwoofers with Avant-garde Audios large trio bright horns and Martin-Logans tall, see-through electrostatics. They both end up using similar technology to get the results they want. I believe the low WAF with most used big ole horns (NOT classic Klipsch corner Khorns) keeps them cheap to the market in price, inviting tweaking audiophiles to scoop them up, modify them and race them on weekends. A used loudspeaker store or re-coning store will be glad to make a few mods to Khorns for a little too much money, but it can be done- The Bose Jewel cubes are good loudspeakers for their size, if NOT a bit overpriced, but then they have the Lexus reputation dont they- More loudspeakers should be built for the corners, not just our beloved Khorns. More loudspeakers should be built for actual use on entertainment centers, NOT just anechoic rooms- Jim, I thought: 828 cabs $540 515Bs 250 1005s 500 288s these are? 811/902s 400 ALK? 550 sum $2240 resale of unknown loudspeaker: $1120 Parrotten, I thought your system was too nice for you to be so provocative- I learn far more from the knowledgeable posters here than any puff-piece filled with $10 words Why own classic Klipsch corner Khorns? Because you can listen to them for decades, get most of what dream systems offer and sell them for more than you paid! Guys, what you ragging on Tom for? Everybody knows that a Jag is a better car with a Chevy block dropped in! Thats all he is saying. I always thought Brennenitis, was buy JBL lens and modify their big ole horns and live for this stupid nonsense- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Well, I had to rag on Bruce Edgar. I haven't read anything from him where he wasn't denegrading someone else's work. Am I the only one that notices this? Am I wrong? My conclusion is that all evidence points to the fact that this guy is standing on the shoulders of giants, and then bad-mouths them as not knowing as much as him. "Real" scientists do not work like that, but salesmen often do. Now I don't even want to hear another "Edgarhorn"; too much of a bad taste in my mouth... DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 These are much more handsome than the Edgars. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 3d, In your opinion. I would not permit the Edgars or those first two photos in your post anywhere near my home. Perhaps in the barn. Now that last photo works for me. Of course, this is all just my opinion and I certainly do not state it as an absolute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Some finished Titans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/21/2004 4:31:24 PM paulparrot wrote: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/06/19/DDG7R780FU1.DTL As I read this newspaper review, linked over at AA, I kept thinking that the writer probably has never heard Klipschorns, and is likely going to listen to the eventual release on some tiny little cone speakers. Good luck to him. A poster who attended the live performance, Jim Stoneburner, said: ". . . the choir had a tremendous dynamic range, from ppppp (literally) to who-knows-what loud." What other speaker can approach the Klipschorn in its hairtrigger-activated ability to go from the faintest, barely discernible, hint of a mist of sound, to the full-blown assault of a 100+ piece orchestra, and choir. And, at one extreme or the other and all points in between, do it without so much as breaking a sweat. EDIT: And sound as good! Michael Tilson Thomas, conductor ---------------- After finally getting a confession from Dean with respect to what you and your alter ego(this month it's tubelover) and others have been up to with your SET War, I was so tired of your narrow minded poison being dispensed toward anyone who does not agree with you, I had to take some time away from this place. Yet, it seems your same tactics are in play with any who hold a different point of view than you. I come back and see this. A real "Homer" post. Typical troll post and unbelieveable that you would give someone as knowledgeable as TBrennan the crap you did. I am sure you're full of Klipsch religion after "The Pilgrimage" but you need to give this a rest. AS much as I enjoy Klipsch speakers, I also get weary of the near sacred categorization of anything done by PWK. To anyone in the world who has made a positivie contribution, great, but the diefycation has got to go. Anyone who spends the money to buy a pair of Khorns should need no "I feel good about my ownership" post. Sorry folks. There are a lot of outstanding sounding speakers in this big wide world. I've got better things to do than stand around thumping on my chest about owning a pair of Khorns, and I'm certainly not about to give anyone grief about what they chose to own, or what they feel could be an improvement on Khorns. Let's get past this, please. Free yourself from "Parrot World". Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I find it doubtful that you own K-horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 5:20:15 PM jazman wrote: After finally getting a confession from Dean with respect to what you and your alter ego(this month it's tubelover) and others have been up to with your SET War, I was so tired of your narrow minded poison being dispensed toward anyone who does not agree with you, I had to take some time away from this place. Yet, it seems your same tactics are in play with any who hold a different point of view than you. I come back and see this. A real "Homer" post. Typical troll post and unbelieveable that you would give someone as knowledgeable as TBrennan the crap you did. I am sure you're full of Klipsch religion after "The Pilgrimage" but you need to give this a rest. AS much as I enjoy Klipsch speakers, I also get weary of the near sacred categorization of anything done by PWK. To anyone in the world who has made a positivie contribution, great, but the diefycation has got to go. Anyone who spends the money to buy a pair of Khorns should need no "I feel good about my ownership" post. Sorry folks. There are a lot of outstanding sounding speakers in this big wide world. I've got better things to do than stand around thumping on my chest about owning a pair of Khorns, and I'm certainly not about to give anyone grief about what they chose to own, or what they feel could be an improvement on Khorns. Let's get past this, please. Free yourself from "Parrot World". ---------------- What an interesting interpretation. My starting of a thread about how great Klipschorns are and how much I like them is . . . trolling! LOL! Please note this is the Klipsch Forum. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 No Paul. This, in conjunction with other comments you made, is trolling. "I've heard Bruce's speakers and was distinctly unimpressed. Do you work on a commission for him?" Want more examples? The forum is littered with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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