dodger Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Hello: I really hope he does too. I think that there is a good mix on the Board. If anything negative is posted, why not just count to 10 and read another thread. I hope that I'm learning to do that. Win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 This isn't difficult to understand. In fact, it is quite simple. Certain people left because they feel any infringement on their freedom is too much. The issue was never moderation although some don't seem to get this; it was about denying people the ability to speak about certain 'topics' in the name of moderation. First they came for the Communists, and I didnt speak up, because I wasnt a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didnt speak up, because I wasnt a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didnt speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me. Obviously the issue on this board is none of the named groups; the concern however remains the same. You don't agree? That is your right just as others have the right to disagree with policy AND Klipsch has the right to set whatever policy they feel necessary. It is, after all, America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Anarchist, there is merit to your post but I sense there is more to it than editorial freedom. On occasion, I have traded jabs with both Fini and Allan Songer. It was usually political in nature and although frustrating at times, it never got personal. Both Fini and Allan are passionate guys with strong opinions about many subjects and issues. I disagree with their political views but I do respect their opinions and I applaud their passion. In another thread, I questioned why they neglected to provide a reason for their decision to leave the forum. Actually, I have come to believe that they dont really owe us anything. We can all review the most recent threads, in which they participated, and come up with our own conclusions. Whether either member temporarily logs on is of no significance to me. Im of the opinion that both Fini and Allan Songer have made this forum a better place. Politics aside, they are both partially responsible for me signing on each day. Their knowledge, wit and friendship will be missed and I do hope that their hiatus is brief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Well said Boomac. I couldn't agree more. Fini most likely signed on so he could pm a few people. It's hard to contact people otherwise in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted June 22, 2004 Moderators Share Posted June 22, 2004 "Infringement on freedom?" That seems to be a little too much. From the emails I have gotten from a couple of people who left, the reason had nothing to do with infringement of freedom, or my presence at any rate. If you want to call that an infringement of freedom, I guess you can. (By the way, are laws you abide by as everyday citizens called "infringement of freedoms?" Just curious.) It had to do with their intolerance of other people on this board and inabilities to get along. Allan and Fini both neglected to tell me why they were leaving, but they certainly have the FREEDOM to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 "It had to do with their intolerance of other people on this board and inabilities to get along." It seems as if Allan can't stand my political viewpoint. In my "Reagan" thread, he refuse to pay respect to the dead. As neutral as Trey can be, he did "lower" his hat to Reagan which Allan won't do. Maybe that's why he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Allan didn't leave because of political discussions. He left for the same reason the others did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 12:54:38 PM garymd wrote: Allan didn't leave because of political discussions. He left for the same reason the others did. ---------------- Hello: As Amy stated, they had the freedom to leave. We can miss their presence much like the way we miss the presence of those who have passed on. It is a selfish thing to hold on to those who CHOOSE to leave even stronger than those who have no say as to when they leave. As Gary stated there are those with whom we wish to share a few words and PM is the only way. We do not have all of those we enjoy posting with email address. For all of our technology and thinking the world is closer, certain parts are becoming distant. Those who choose to give up land telephone lines and only have cell phones. Try getting a cell phone number. So as we "mourn" the loss of some, we gain new. Guy, Paul, Gary are usually in a solid front to answer a newbies question and welcome them. I am not saying to forget those who left - be thankful for their posts and the possibility that they MAY return. I am not saying that no-one else answers a newbies question. We can wonder for days, weeks as to why they left. But they had reasons that they felt were strong enough to do so. We choose to stay - we sometimes leave for a bit without fanfare or in a group, but we return. Be thankful for those that are here - ALL of them and for a Moderator with a sense of humour and who gives us credit for knowing boundaries. I am thankful for all. I learn, I laugh, I feel bad for some. I also welcome the new Members. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankhokie Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 should we make a forum called "Member's Who Left Discussion" ... i mean trey c. did it for some photos, i would say this is the hottest topic of the minute and it would keep amy from having to hunt all over for the "hot" threads ...unless the earlier post was by an imposter unger? (twitching with paranoia) no one is who they seem anymore...(twitch twitch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted June 22, 2004 Moderators Share Posted June 22, 2004 LOL, you'll know it's me b/c it says "administrator." No paranoia necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 1:51:04 PM Amy Unger wrote: LOL, you'll know it's me b/c it says "administrator." No paranoia necessary. ---------------- Hi Amy: Don't give anyone the idea to register under Administrator LOL At any given point do we really know who is posting? Other names? Do we know who has taken a vacation away? Even Amy is going to be leaving for a bit uh oh is she really pregnant.... did we do something to get her mad? Paranoia strikes deep..... Am I me? dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 "Allan didn't leave because of political discussions. He left for the same reason the others did." My point is that Allan left because he can't get along with conservatives (whether you believe it or not) on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 "Am I me?" Incognito! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 2:07:03 PM neo33 wrote: "Am I me?" Incognito! ---------------- Okay which personality answered that one dodger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Neo33, I think Allan just needs a break. He feels about Bush as many of us felt about Clinton but I think that's only part of this equation. He'll return and I, for one, hope it's sooner rather than later. Now, let's go on and talk about audio and music stuff. Ok, you Stevie Nicks lover you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 2:03:31 PM neo33 wrote: My point is that Allan left because he can't get along with conservatives (whether you believe it or not) on this board. ---------------- You're still wrong. He left because he took the bait and got pissed. He probably should have ignored the posts which were obviously meant to piss him off but that's not always easy. It wasn't a political thread. It was about poetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 On 6/22/2004 12:40:31 PM Amy Unger wrote: "Infringement on freedom?" That seems to be a little too much. Not remotely. When you mandate what topics people can participate in, you have infringed on their freedom. Freedom of expression and all that... bookburnings, prohibition, Salem hangings - all infringements. You certainly have the right to define the topics which are permitted - it is your board. From the emails I have gotten from a couple of people who left, the reason had nothing to do with infringement of freedom, or my presence at any rate. I have received numerous emails from this board as well. We will have to disagree on this point unless we compared notes - which I won't. (By the way, are laws you abide by as everyday citizens called "infringement of freedoms?" Just curious.) I would be more than happy to discuss this in depth with you and provide a variety of sources which may shed some light on this subject; it is of course political (mingled with a great deal of philosophy) so you would have to make concessions for it to occur. It had to do with their intolerance of other people on this board and inabilities to get along. Interesting. With whom couldn't Fini get along? Of the others, it seems more they were battered into vacating the premises. There are several new threads on this board in the last couple of days filled with baiting and inflammatory statements. Perhaps they just tired of it. Allan and Fini both neglected to tell me why they were leaving, but they certainly have the FREEDOM to do so. You have stated your position is immutable and Paul has quoted it repeatedly. To quote another post, "What is the point?" I will simply say this, you have made changes. You have banned certain topics, questioned the usefulness of certain threads, and are now relocating certain threads to the general section. When can we expect the baiters and trolls to be ferreted out? I believe that was the intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted June 22, 2004 Moderators Share Posted June 22, 2004 I am growing so tired of the freedom of speech argument that I will not be baited into arguing what it's actual meaning is yet again. My rule has been simple. You may not post anything that is personally offensive or insulting to another member. That's it. I wouldn't allow that to go on in my home, either. If some people can not handle that simple rule, then I'm glad they are gone. And I'm not pointing any fingers, I will miss the audio information from those who have left who could actually contribute constructively. I never said Fini couldn't get along with others. I said I didn't know why he left. I said others told me they couldn't tolerate some memebers behavior. As far as political discussions, I did let them go on for a time. Not ONE of them could end without insults, so it was an easy decision-- they're gone. As for moving topics, what's the problem of taking non-audio topics to the General Forum? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 On 6/22/2004 3:22:14 PM Amy Unger wrote: I am growing so tired of the freedom of speech argument that I will not be baited into arguing what it's actual meaning is yet again. Not trying to bait you into arguing the First Amendment; to do so would encourage everyone to miss the point. My rule has been simple. You may not post anything that is personally offensive or insulting to another member. That's it. Please take a look at the "Why own Klipschorns..." thread. See anything offensive or insulting in there or, perhaps, multiple attempts at starting a flame war?" As far as political discussions, I did let them go on for a time. Not ONE of them could end without insults, so it was an easy decision-- they're gone. Many of the audio threads have the same problem. Generally if the topic has more than 20 replies, it contains insults. The point being, it would seem the better approach would be to punish the offenders (who care not a whit about which topic it is) rather than decide to dismiss topics. You can not have democracy without dissent - not trying to bait you here either. As for moving topics, what's the problem of taking non-audio topics to the General Forum? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Nothing wrong with it. Well, ok, now I have to venture out of the two-channel section but I can live with it. It doesn't stop the baiters, the trolls, and the flamers though. The bottom line is its your forum. Do your thing. No one said I or anyone else had to be happy with it. Should we (whomever is unhappy) leave because we 'can't adjust', I understand your position. Enjoy your evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 You know it's odd. The new forums that I hang out on these days just don't have all these issues. It's nice..... Refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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