edwinr Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 I have finished reading a review of the Musical Fidelity X-150 SS intergrated amplifier. Good review and for a SS, apparently good sound. The asking price in Britain is 800 pounds or in Australia about $3000. Being a 'name' brand like Musical Fidelity, you'd probably pay that. I don't know U.S. prices. Okay, the first issue is.... it's made in Taiwan! Now that's not necessarily a bad thing. NAD do it. As do several other formerly highly regarded British brands such as Quad. Many of us own products (particularly tube amps) sourced from China/Taiwan. However, these are generally obscure name brands and we pay the appropriately cheap asking price. In return we receive equipment of average to sometimes poor build quality but of sometimes better than average sound quality. Long term reliability is always a question with these products as is service and warranty backup. The second issue is..... We are we still paying premium prices for name brand hi-fi gear built in 3rd world countries! The name brand manufacturers are charging the same prices for this equipment as though it was designed and built in the country of origin. Many of these manufacturers actually obscure where the product was built. Instead affixing a label saying 'Designed in (name your country)'. I think this country of manufacturer issue more affects non-audiophiles. People who are first getting into hi-fi or home theatre. They will see a name brand, assume it's made in the country of origin, and walk out of the store with a box or two of marketing trickery. In summation, I think if the name brand manufacturers are going to continue with off shore manufacturing, then they should pass the savings on to the consumer. At least if I buy Jolida, Audio Space, Antique Sound Labs etc., I know what I'm getting and I'm paying the right price for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istari Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Its called outsourcing. Gonna continue. Corporate (name your country) America is in a situation where the executives of a company go for cheap labor, wheter its moving a factory off-shore or as far away as India, as a means to increase their company's profit margin. Fastest way to increase profit margin is to reduce labor costs. Stockholders want their stocks to go up in price and the corp execs will do most anything to please the stockholders and board members. The main reason this happens is so the execs can increase their salaries and bonuses, they of course want to increase their own wealth. BUT!, what does this do to the common man???, puts him out looking for a job, usually at a much lower salary. So, if this continues, which I'm sure it will, who will be able to afford the expensive products/services that Corporate America wants to push on us? Not the poor SOB whose job got sent to Sahib who gets paid 1/5th of what the American used to get. It ain't a pretty picture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Japanese brands are frequently manufactured outside of Japan. My Japanese TV was assembled in the USA! I do have two US amps built in the US, but that is quite rare. My Klipsch speakers were assembled in the US with foreign drivers. My attitude is not to pay premium prices for third world goods. Anyone that does is giving their money away. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Unfortunately, Edwin, the price of goods has little connection to its cost or its origin. If it sells enough at $AU3000, then the price will stay that high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Price is also goverend by high demand. When demand drops expect a sale. Or product is dropped. The Khorn comes to mind when one year it wasnt made. Competition drives outsourcing parts overseas. BOEING aircraft even has some parts made in China. Just to have China buy Boeing aircraft. Im sure Klipsch outsources from the Pacific Rim so they can sell in that region too. Its now a Globle market. The world doesnt revolve around the United States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 I think his point is, on this REALLY hi-end gear (not a $500 Yamaha receiver), why not make it in England or wherever it is from? An extra $200 on a $3,000 product for better quality and the quality associated with these countries would make it worth it to many. At least I know if I buy a Samsung DLP, I can count on it being Made in South Korea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Manufacture in a first world country doesn't equate to quality. My Dodge RAM truck was built in Mexico. Its build is at least as good as, if not better, than the ones built in the U.S.A. Quality really depends on the quality system employed at the company. Just where in the world do you think most of the extremely high quality computer chips are made? Certainly not first world countries. FWIW the best electronic assembly technicians I have seen in the U.S.A. are Asian immigrants. They typically value the job, are very focused when working, and do the best job they possibly can. As far as passing the savings on to the consumer, you already have them. The gear would cost significantly more if it were built in a first world country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 Ken, I wouldn't necessarily count on your Samsung DLP being assembled in Korean in the future. Samsung is already in the process of moving its PC manufacturing to China. Can other products be far behind? Who cares where it is actually assembled anyway. It is an American design DLP engine in it. The other electronic components come from all over the world, mostly Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 ---------------- On 7/18/2004 2:37:39 PM Malcolm wrote: Ken, I wouldn't necessarily count on your Samsung DLP being assembled in Korean in the future. Samsung is already in the process of moving its PC manufacturing to China. Can other products be far behind? Who cares where it is actually assembled anyway. It is an American design DLP engine in it. The other electronic components come from all over the world, mostly Asia. ---------------- Yeah, I guess it is good if you live in South Korea and your major industrial players are outsourcing - means your nation has 'made it' - obviously there are lots of issues there, but they seem to have really done well for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 I don't doubt that there are many fine craftsmen and women in South East Asia. I have been to several countries in this region and I have seen what fine skills they are capable of. The point I'm making is that many mid to high end manufacturers are taking advantage of their good name by outsourcing manufacturing, and not passing the savings on to us. Bearing in mind the whole component is made and assembled and even boxed in 3rd world countries! The items in question are branded with famous, no, legendary hi-fi names. I think that's a bit deceitful. I'm not taking issue with OEM manufacturers or prominent U.S. hi-fi companies such as Klipsch or Jolida who outsource certain electrical components. In these cases we benefit because at the lower end of the market Klipsch and Jolida pass the cost savings on to us - high value gear for small money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Edwinr.....Why should I pass cost savings on to you. If I can outsource & cut overall costs. Why should,nt I pocket the profets. AS long as the traffic and demand is high why should I not benefit from it. Just like every one else on this foum I want to retire in wealth & good monitary comfort.As do the people who work for me. Do you prefer we give you all the benefits of a free lunch. While the owners of the company live in squaller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 ---------------- On 7/19/2004 9:11:57 AM Maron Horonzak wrote: Edwinr.....Why should I pass cost savings on to you. If I can outsource & cut overall costs. Why should,nt I pocket the profets. AS long as the traffic and demand is high why should I not benefit from it. Just like every one else on this foum I want to retire in wealth & good monitary comfort.As do the people who work for me. Do you prefer we give you all the benefits of a free lunch. While the owners of the company live in squaller? ---------------- hello Maron - I agree wholeheartedly until your last two sentences - I think you have somehow translated Edwin's concern to embracing communism. Edwin - If it sounds like, looks like, measures like and lasts like high quality highend gear then it may well be high quality high end gear. To get that you pay what the market bears. Where made is irrelevant. I can see your point when sourcing is done at a much cheaper rate and quality goes down - prices should be reciprocal. As a consumer I have to be sure that I get what I pay for and that is generally done as a comparison to the competitive market price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 HWAtkins.....Would it be a competitive market place if you were in for brain surgery? Are...Are you looking for a good quality butcher? At least once a month When I come to St louis I pass the new BENTLY dealer on highway 40. I stopped in for a chat & kick some tires. Did you ever want to feel humbled . They love the car for the sport of it . not the price. Bently is back into racing again. That was BENTLY,s origional intent. They dont care about customer price break..Dont ask.. MIKE SHANNON had his ol BENTLY in . Wants $140,000 for it. Now thats a used car for us peons who want quality at a good price break. What i,m getting at Its all reletive. Big home big morgage. Little home little morgage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 I concede that our passion, being hi-fi, and all that our passion entails, is market driven. Golfing enthusiasts, car nuts, and other probably insane interests, provide a captive, easily exploited and manipulated consumer group. And I acknowledge that certain companies are doing well financially by moving their manufacturing bases off shore. But the point I'm making is, no-one is benefiting, except a few boardroom types who probably don't need the money anyway. You can bet your bottom dollar that these paper corporations are not investing their profits back into their country of origin. You can bet they're not investing in productivity agreements with U.S. workers, both skilled and unskilled. You can bet they're not providing trainee and apprenticeship (skilled trade) programs for young school and college leavers. You can bet they've trashed or sold off irreplaceble manufacturing equipment. So my point is? Where's my discount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 ED.......In my pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 ---------------- On 7/19/2004 7:54:17 PM Maron Horonzak wrote: ED.......In my pocket. ---------------- Come on, you've got to share! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 ED....No. I want all of your fortunes. Your home your wife, kids, dog, cat. Power is everything. I ROBOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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