BruinsFan Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 So I finally picked up my Rotel 1056 receiver. Once I play with it so more I'll post some thoughts on it if anyone is interested. I hooked it up and was playing a few CDs through a Denon 2900. Just using the out of the box config it sounded excellent. Played several CDs with different styles of music - all real good. Definetly a step up from my old Yamaha and Toshiba DVD. And better then the Denon 3805 I tried for a few days. So what's my question you ask - well.... When I push the volume the sound, expecially on vocals, get's edgy. Not bright like with 3805 - so edgy is the only way to describe it. If you keep bumping the volume it get's painful. Not in two channel the 1056 puts 100watts to the fronts. It starts at about 60% of max. So it's loud, and louder then I would generally play it. But I was wondering what was causing it. As I said I haven't configured the receiver at all yet so maybe that will smooth it out - but I was also wondering since my RF5s are new (less then 2 weeks) - if this would smooth out just from some additional usage. I've heard discussions about break in periods etc. but wasn't sure if there was a final verdict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 As I stated to you in one of your previous threads that redbook CD playback through a DVD player is going sound harsh and edgy. I have yet to hear a DVD player that does both well, hence my previous recommendation to purchase the Denon 2200 for your DVD's and use the cost savings get a used high quality CD player for redbook CD playback. I guess you got to hear it first hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 ok - no idea what a redbook CD means but I got the same sound at the same volume levels from my iPOD, from the tuner, and when the playing a movie. So I'm not sure that answers my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 A redbook CD is just a standard store bought CD. However, if you got the same results from all your other sources the problem obviously does not lie with the 2900. It probably has more to do with the titanium tweeters that the RF's use that tend to be screechy sounding when driven hard with most SS gear. Perhaps the Rotel model you have is not that great a match for the RF5's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 well alot of folks felt the rotel was a real good match. They sounded good when I auditioned them so here we are. Now given it could be the room or as I said the setup of the receiver since it's right out of the box. But just wanted to see what other people's milage has been, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Set it up first and adjust the midrange to your liking, especially for 2-channel listening. Cables shouldn't be an issue unless you're using the cheapos they include with the unit. Honestly, I've never heard a HT receiver that does 2-channel music well although I've heard there are some out there. I was in the same position as you and ended up buying a tube integrated for music and left the HT reciever for 5.1 movies and DVD music, switching back and forth with a Niles switchbox. Let us know how things turn out after set-up. It could make a bigger difference than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 ok I will - thanks. I just wasn't sure if there was a lot to the "burn in" time for new speakers and how much they may or may not mellow after some usage. It sounds very good at reasonable listening levels. I don't have a very good ear for that sort thing (in fact I'm deaf in one ear - try to set up a 6.1 set up like that ) but to me I'm liking what I hear. Watched ID4 last night - just default settings - although I set speaker distances - and it was good. Video better then I remember and audio was clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 ---------------- On 9/16/2004 1:03:58 PM BruinsFan wrote: well alot of folks felt the rotel was a real good match. They sounded good when I auditioned them so here we are. Now given it could be the room or as I said the setup of the receiver since it's right out of the box. But just wanted to see what other people's milage has been, etc. ---------------- What exactly did you audition? Did you audition this particular Rotel receiver with your RF-5s? If not, what are you referring to? Couple of things. First, I fall into the camp of those who believe that your speakers need time to break in. So, don't exactly make any rash purchases ....just yet. I would run the radio or repeat CDs with the RF5s at low volumes constantly. Get some hours on them first. At least 100-150 hours. Then, see where you are. Also, others have made valid points. Set up your equipment properly, treat your room, and then reassess the situation. Yes, its true that Rotel equip usually is a pretty good match with Klipsch. I can speak to their separates, and I love Rotel amps, but I am not that sure about their receivers. That being said, how are you running your 2900 to your receiver? Digital or analog? That makes a difference about which DACS you are using (Denon or the Rotel). Recently, I have come to abandon my 2900 for redbook duties. Pretty average to poor actually except for Pure Direct mode (display and picture off) - analog out. If this combination does not work for you, you may have to upgrade your CD player and/or your processor/amp situation. For my two-channel, I wasn't truly happy with the Redbook performance of my titanium tweeters (at least at very high volumes) until I put tubes somewhere in the mix. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Did the demo you reference happen in a store on the same type of speakers you own? Then the differences are source, room, and speaker positioning. You may want to check your room and speaker positioning as those can sometimes cause serious sonic differences. Do you have the speakers toed in? tell us a little about the room. I would tend to agree with what you heard prior to buying, that Rotel gear is not known for harshness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 I listened to the stores 1056 using their RF5s. I already acknowledge the lack of setup and difference in rooms etc. could be causing the edge at high volumes. I was just wondering what to be aware of during the setup of just the receiver that may help - which someone mentioned. As well as how much stock I should put into the "break in" times for new speakers. I have about 35 hours into them. I'm not sure about speaker placement yet as I am just starting to setup this room. Thoughts on speaker placement for those having heard something similar before would be helpful. Again it's for of an edge on vocals then a harsh sound I've heard with Yamaha's or Denon's. (It's prononced in my house with the hardwood floors.) Again, not sure what the setup on the DVD would matter since it's heard on various inputs but I'm using a the coaxial digital out. A few people seem very against the Denon 2900's redbook playback yet others are very happy with it and several online reviews I read rated it high. I guess opinions just vary greatly at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 ---------------- On 9/16/2004 11:06:04 AM BruinsFan wrote: As I said I haven't configured the receiver at all yet so maybe that will smooth it out - but I was also wondering since my RF5s are new (less then 2 weeks) - if this would smooth out just from some additional usage. I've heard discussions about break in periods etc. but wasn't sure if there was a final verdict. ---------------- The Rotels definitly do get smoother with some break in. Give it about 100 hours to smooth out a bit. Another thing that I found. I use a separate cd player from my DVD player for 2 channel sound. When I was digitally imputting the CD player it had that "edgy" character you describe at high spl. I then connected it via 2 channel analog direct from my Sony Changer and the sound improved considerably. What I theorize is that the Rotel DACs are optimized for multichannel HT sound (DTS, DD etc.). The DACs in the CD player are optimized for music and are designed to work in conjunction with the players particular laser. Now, I believe I have the best of both worlds. You can accomplish the same thing by using the analog outputs of your DVD player to 2 channel direct for stereo and the digital coax for multichannel movies. Another possibility is that you are hearing some soft clipping because the amp is being overdriven. I used to have RF3s driven by a Denon 3801. The 3801 realistically put out only 80 wpc vs it's 105 wpc rating. I would get some very "edgy" sound at very high spl due to the amps in the 3801 running out of headroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 I'll try that if it continues after I let it break in for a while. I set up the receiver this evening with my SPL meter - all of which I am very new at. I don't think I'm too far off though - cause it cleaned up the sound nicely. Listened to a variety of music and a few DVDs. Good audio and picture. A nice jump in quality over what i had. I didn't get around to cranking it (didn't go much over 85db) so I'm not such if the edge introduced at high volumes was still there or not. I'll play with that tomorrow. If it's there at low volumes - I don't have the ear to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 BruinsFan, its just a suggestion, but you might want to make some EQ adjustments, I have always found that EQ makes huge improvments in sq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 ---------------- On 9/17/2004 1:20:37 AM BruinsFan wrote: A nice jump in quality over what i had. ---------------- Wait and see...that mild mannered "Clark Kent" reaction will soon change to shouts of joy. It's always interesting to watch the reactions when someone first makes the move from "consumer electronics" to high end. I remember the day that I moved from my Denon 3801 to my stack of Rotel separates. Of course I was very excited, hooked everything up everything in a flash and popped on a CD. Then I sat there scratching my head because by comparison to the Denon...the sound seemed....well, "thin". After a couple of hours of listening the light bulb finally went on in my head. It wasn't that the Rotel was lacking, it was the fact that I was no longer listening to the bloated midrange I had become acustomed to from the Denon. I realized that the highs were there in much greater detail, the bottom end was full and very tight. Very tight bass doesn't have the attention getting boom that less articulate bass does, just tremendous punch. Previously I was listening to what was in essence..distortion, and my ear had become acustomed to that. It took awhile to adjust. Audio is one arena where sometimes less is more! Needless to say, my ear is now much more attuned to what high end sounds like than it was before. Terms like "inner detail", warm, bright, dark etc. finally can be intuitively understood and apreciated. I no longer get "listeners fatigue". My Reference 7 series which sounded excellent, but not as significant an improvement over the 3 series as others here had reported, now were breathing fire. On their improved diet of clean power I could finally descern how good they really were. One thing is sure. We're not in Kansas any more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 There's not much EQ on the rotel that I have found - you can trim the Highs and lows +/- 10db but I'm not sure what specific frequencies it is effecting yet. I seem to get better variations in sound with just changing the crossover settings. I left the receiver on for a full day and it does seem to be settling in. I cranked it this morning and the edginess didn't kick in till above 105db (measured 16 feet back) - which I will have to blame on the room And seeing as I don't listen to anything at that level - I don't think this is even a concern. JewishAMerPrince: well said. I find I'm having to retrain my ears to Klipsch speakers as well as the Rotel. I had an older but decent Yamaha (5 years old) with good energy speakers (12 years old). While I think the quality was good it doesn't compare to the new equipment. After setting up the receiver last night and it really started to shine. I'm a novice at this so it make take some time to get the settings right - but it's quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I have never liked ANY Japanese players (as I'm sure that everyone knows here as I have blathered about it enough), as I find all of them to sound edgy and irritating regardless of the source material. I was horrified when a buddy of mine bought a Rotel cd player, and I was even there at the original demo (and I hated it even then), but he admits to being partially deaf anyway. Needless to say, I cannot stand to listen to his system, which otherwise has some pretty nice gear in it... Don't throw anymore money trying to get around this problem, as the SOURCE gear is the problem in the first place. Get something BETTER like a British, Canadian or US make and you will be MUCH happier in the long run. If its a matter of money, buy used. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 well that seems a bit short sighted but your entitled to that opinion. Most of the companies are very global now. Denon has some head-quarters in Jamaica or something like that. They have a major research facility in Georgia. I think the 2900 I just bought was made in China. So I'm not sure how this fits into your buying scheme. The Rotel receiver was also made in China, though I'm not sure where the company orginates from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Yes, I'm opinionated. That just happens when I'm right so much. - just kidding. But really, how many of them are you going to buy and not be happy with? I've been there... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinsFan Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 I once heard someone say that no good bands have ever come out of Canada. Just not sure how people can make such general statements. It's not like this person has heard everyband in Canada. Sounds like you just have a trained ear that doesn't like the components or something else common to being built in Japan and not just the fact that it's built there. I don't have that kind of experience at all. The Denon DVD, Rotel 1056 and Klipsch sound too good for me to poke holes in it. At least for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 ---------------- On 9/17/2004 3:16:51 PM BruinsFan wrote: The Rotel receiver was also made in China, though I'm not sure where the company orginates from. ---------------- Rotel is a family owned Japanese company. Their design staff originally was in the UK and designed in conjunction with B&W. There are still close ties worldwide with B&W, even the American distributor handles both lines. There equipment still has British design input, and British flavor to the sound. Rotel proudly advertises their British slit-foil capacitors. Rotel is currently built in China in a Rotel built, Rotel owned and Rotel controlled factory. I understand that this plant is quite modern and employs a small staff of permanent, highly skilled and trained workers. They also build equipment for other esoteric brands in that factory. By building in China they are able to keep prices low(er) and value high. The consumer electronics type brands that build in China, Korea, Mexico etc. outsource their fabrication to the lowest bidder umongst the giants that have sprung up the past few years. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.