Cornwall 1 and Forte 1 have almost identical specs - which is better?

[tomato-soup]

After browsing this forum for nearly a month, I'm interested in buying some heritage speakers. I've narrowed it down to either the original Cornwall or the original Forte. They both have nearly identical specs, but the Forte goes lower (32hz) then the Cornwall (38hz) so I guess it has better bass. Especially when you consider that it has an additional 12" woofer in the back in the form of a passive radiator. They both have nearly identical sensitivity ratings too, with the Fortes at 98db and the Cornwalls at 98.5 db. Technically, the Cornwalls have a half decible advantage, but I wonder if you could really hear the difference? On paper, both speakers appear to be virtual clones so it makes it hard to chose. Since both are pretty old and out of production, I can't just walk into a store to conduct a side by side comparison. Any opinions on the subtle differences between these two speakers would help me out a lot. I'm looking to try and make a purchase in the next two weeks so I need to try and figure out what one I'd rather buy. Thanks for your help.

[Chris Robinson]

TS, welcome to the forum. Glad you've been reading. There's a lot of experience here.

I personally like the Cornwalls better ... They're really pretty difference from the Fortes, although the Fortes are wonderful.

The voicing of the speakers in the middle and upper frequencies sounds different to my ears, but both speakers are very revealing and need good amps to drive them. Both will drill a hole in your forehead with mediocre, high distortion amps. The Harmon Kardon 430, an Ebay bargain these days for less than $100, sounds very nice with both speakers. Good SET is also an option if you don't need ear-splitting volume or listen to extremely dynamic music at high SPL's.

If you really like the idea of the Forte, consider the Chorus model, and perhaps the Chorus II version. For Cornwalls, the "Holy Grail" is the early Cornwall II model with the vertically mounted midrange and tweeter. They seem to image very, very nicely.

Another speaker that might float your boat (but not Heritage) is the KG4. I bought a pair for my daughter from a forum member here, and I was blown away by the sound they emit; very close to the Cornwall, Chorus, Forte class.

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[T2K]

As Chris said, check out Chorus II's if you have the chance. I have both I's and II's and prefer the II's. Good luck.

Keith

[scotbuck]

Greetings!

I also recommend checking into the kg4's first. I just bought a pair and am knocked out by the sound. Bass extension goes down to Cornwall level in a cabinet that measures only 28"H x 15"W x 12"D. (Sadly, it has only 94dB sensitivity, so if you've got an SET like I do those extra 4dB on the Cornwall/Forte will make a difference). However, if you've got some watts to push 'em, the kg4's can be purchased for under $350. Bang for the buck, they're hard to beat...

This isn't to say that the kg4's are better than the big Klipsches - I plan on buying a Chorus II, Cornwall, or K-Horn once I move and have the extra space for them. I would simply suggest considering whether you need a big speaker before investing the extra money in a pair.

Hope this helps...

Take care,

Scott

[Cal Blacksmith]

Welcome to the board! There is lots to learn here along with LOTS of BS and rib poking.

I have the Forte 1 and they are wonderfull speakers. Really, you won't go wrong with anything you mentioned or that has been recomended to you. Though it is not a requirement, TUBES are a great way to treat your ears when you use heritage speakers, again though, there are SS fans here also.

[tomato-soup]

First of all I would like to thank those who have replied to my thread so far. I was first exposed to Klipsch from my uncle who has a pair Heresy IIs driven by a McIntosh amp. Although I can't recall the model I know it isn't a tube powered one. I really like the sound from the Heresy II speakers but would like more bass so I guess something that sounds like the Heresy but offers more bass is the way to go for me. Size is also a consideration, although not a deal breaker. I plan on putting them in the corners of a living room which is about 15ft by 14ft with hardwood flooring and a large central area rug. There's a fireplace in the middle and I'll be putting each speaker on each side of it, neatly tucked into the corners. A 15X14 room isn't all that big so I'm thinking it won't be that hard to fill it with beautiful music regardless of the Klipsch speaker I buy. After reading some of your responses so far I took a glance at the spec sheets and saw that the Chorus I levels off at roughly 45hz. The Chorus IIs drop to 39hz which is Cornwall territory. All of them are above the 32hz dropoff of the Forte though. Man, those Fortes dip pretty low. I also noticed Chorus II and Forte II have different midrange horns then the others, which is kind of like opening another can of worms since I never heard a square horn before. All I have to reference is the Heresy II. But I really like the Heresy's sound. I like how it literally sounds different then most other speakers I've heard. I've read some posts on this forum on how the square horn tends to alter or tame the klipsch sound. Does this mean it makes them sound more like other, conventional speakers? If so, I can say I'm definitely not interested in them. I don't want my speakers to sound like all the other ones out there, I want them to sound like the Heresys which sound really alive and dynamic. I can literally hear the difference between the horn driven Heresy IIs and conventional cone-driven speakers. That horn sound is what got me so that's what I want in my new (okay, used) speakers. I feel like the more I research the more I sink into the quicksand. The harder it is to make a decision, especially since I can't actually listen to them. I now see that the Chorus II and the Cornwall II have almost identical specs but that a major difference is the types of midrange horns used. And the fact that the Cornwall is much wider. Like I said, the more I research the more choices I have and some are confusing and none of them are easy. The main problem is that all of these speakers are no longer being made and that pretty much means you can't make an in-person comparison and then pick the one that sounds best to you. I'm forced to have to make a decision based soley on technical data without actually hearing the speakers first. I feel like I'm pulling my hair out!

[tillmbil]

I have both Forte II's and Cornwall II's and they both sound great. The Forte's can dig down low with the right amplification. I think the horn deal refers more to not being to bight. The Forte's with bad amplification will kill you at high end and high volume. However, the Forte's look much better in the WAF department in a greatroom. If you are doing two channel buy the inexpensive HK430 and Forte's and you will be impressed. You shold be able to do this for $500.00 to your door.

Good luck,

For that $500 you will beat any sound your freinds might have I would think.

Unless they already have Klipsch

[tomato-soup]

Tillmbil, what's the audible differences between you Forte IIs with the square horn and the Cornwalls IIs with their exponential horns? How does the midrange differ between the two? WHich one is brighter and more in your face? Is it possible for you to describe the differences in bass output between the single 15" Cornwall II woofer and the dual 12" Forte II woofers?

[WMcD]

In my view, you shouldn't let a decision hinge upon a few numbers in the bass. I suspect that the numbers advertised are achieved in very favorable rooms and will not be the same in yours. So don't count on them too much. As one buddy here says, YMMV.

I will make a few observations:

You ARE hearing the effect of the horns. That is basically why we're Klipsch fans. No one is going to argue with you.

The Heresy IMHO is weak in the bass compaired to others with larger boxes and drivers. Whatever the numbers may say, this is an issue.

The Forte I is best described as an Heresy II with a much better bass system. They get excellent reviews.

The Forte II, Quartet, and Chorus II have a "Tractrix" midrange. I have the FII and Q and believe this is a very important feature. This is because they are more directional and work very well in conjunction with room acoustics. Also, they all use a passive radiator which I like.

Let me suggest you take a longer view in what you're buying and consider that you may well want to buy additional speakers from the same family for HT and the like, particularly a center channel. Or, you may wish to sell off whatever you buy.

I believe the Cornwall is a very good performer all round. It is also a classic. It has real metal horns, classic drivers, plywood box, strong bass, and there is a fairly constant market. You can't go wrong. The Heresy I is a good center, another classic, and well matched if you want a center, or even surrounds. Someone can give us a link to a fairly recent review of the CW by the Belgian Audio Society . . . or you can search the web.

So that is a very good family to get into. All replacement parts are available to one extent or another (but this is the case with others too).

On the other hand, obviously I like the family set out above with the tractrix and passive. The plastic horns and MDF boxes annoy me a bit. Still, performance is excellent and they are more tower-like. Replacement diaphragms are drop in replacements, which might make a difference to some.

I must admit that my own purchases were the result of time and chance. One forum member offered me the Forte II pretty much out of the blue, just when I was ready to buy something. And they were a train ride away. I ran across the Q's at Saturday Morning Audio near home while I was killing time, waiting for a movie to start. I got them home in a shopping cart.

Don't overlook the expense of transportation and packing in any purchase

So, I stick with a family. There is some appeal to me in sticking with a design type and gaining some familiarity.

Naturally you're correct about not being able to do a side by side comparison of speakers no longer on showroom floors.

About the closest we have come is during the two recent conventions sponsored by Klipsch. The result is that all the Klipsch products sound good. There is a bit of a pecking order but less than I'd thought in the past. That includes the H II which I damn with faint praise.

If the pattern holds, there will be other, around the summer solstice, 2005, at Indianapolis. Naturally we'd all like to see you there. You can tell us tales of your purchases and adventures.

Best,

Gil

[Chris Robinson]

Tomato, thanks for filling in some the details and your conundrums. I was trying to offer you food for thought, having heard most of the speakers.

I would go with the Heritage family as you initially suggested. If you like the Heresy, you'll LOVE the Cornwall. Given your room, they'll take up a good chunk of the corners, but they'll easy on the eyes if they're minty. They are also collectable since they're out of production and do what they do very, very well.

Keep an eye on Audiogon and Ebay, and find a pair near you. DO NOT ship these if you can avoid it. Find a pair within driving distance, check them out, and then buy them.

I had a McIntosh MC2105 (with the blue meters) and it sounded great with the Cornwalls. They also do very well with less expensive but good amps. I see you're only 19, so the budget will be important. Gil's suggestion is good. Pick a family (Heritage) and build your system around it. I did and I love it.

[synthfreek]

How sure are you that the Mcinstosh amp you listened to wasn't tube-based? Some Mcintosh solid state and tube amps look nearly identical. Not all Mcintosh tube amps look like the MC30 & MC50(with the tubes visible and prominent). Some of their integrated tube amps look just like a "regular" receiver(tubes hidden under the case).

[Seadog]

"That horn sound is what got me ....."

T-Soup,

Welcome to the obsession! That happened to me 19 years ago (about the time you were born according to your profile) and I bought a pair of KG4s that I still own (I bought them before the Forte was introduced. Cornwalls cost too much and I wanted more bass than the Heresy could produce, so the passive radiator in the KG4 was what pushed me toward that decision).

FWIW, the following is what Klipsch wrote in their publication "Frequency Response" when the Chorus was introduced:

"There is now a new KLIPSCH Loudspeaker for home entertainment, the KLIPSCH CHORUS.

The KLIPSCH CHORUS is positioned between the ever-popular KLIPSCH FORTE and KLIPSCH CORNWALL models."

It goes on to describe the Chorus specifications.

I would note that the published bass response for the models with the passive radiators may be hard to duplicate unless the speaker placement conditions are perfect.

[Number 9]

I owned Cornwall's and now have Forte IIs.

For me, the decision came simply down to the size of listening room. When I had a larger room which did justice to the Cornwalls, they were great. When I moved to a new home with a smaller listening room, the Forte IIs are just right wheras the Cornwalls would be over-powering.

IMO, mate the speakers to the proper size of the room, and you should be fine. I think the Forte's can do fine in anything up to 21' x 18.

[colterphoto1]

Gil sez:

I believe the Cornwall is a very good performer all round. It is also a classic. It has real metal horns, classic drivers, plywood box, strong bass, and there is a fairly constant market. You can't go wrong. The Heresy I is a good center, another classic, and well matched if you want a center, or even surrounds. Someone can give us a link to a fairly recent review of the CW by the Belgian Audio Society . . . or you can search the web.

----------------

Here ya go! It's wordy and fairly scientific, but the gist is that the Cornwall is one of the most solid, efficient LOW DISTORTION speakers ever built! I'd rather have the linearity of a light quick ported 15", than a passive radiator any day. BIG BOXES RULE!!

http://www.belgaudio.com/kcmap.htm

Have fun with whatever you get!

Michael

[WMcD]

Me? Wordy? Prolix perhaps, but not wordy.

Smile,

Gil

[colterphoto1]

no, no, no, not our dear verbose Mr. McD! I was referring of course to the Belgian School article. Print the whole dern thing out and use it for the 'special reading room',

cheers- going out for cheese tonight! wwwooohhhoooo

Michael

[tomato-soup]

I big Thank You goes out to everybody who took the time to post here. I really do appreciate the help everybody gave me. It's one thing to lurk about and read all you can in order to learn but being able to directly ask a specific question and get feedback from other posters is what this forum is really all about and makes me glad I found it.

I made the decision to hunt down a pair of Cornwalls, seeing how they already withstood the test of time and seem to have definitely achieved cult status with fellow KLipsch owners.

I figured the Cornwalls would be the safest bet, but I'm sure the Fortes really kick butt as well.

I'll post my thoughts on my Cornwalls when I get them and hook them up, in case anybody's interested.

Thanks once more!

[Audio Flynn]

The only Cornwalls I ever heard were Moderator TREYs in a very bad room with a bunch of horned out nutcases. In such a nice town as Indianaplois

I was not disappointed.

Of course the amplification was VRD tube monoblocks that I really like but do not own cause i am a poor midle aged fart.

Neither is a bad choice.

Comodity grade source or amplification is a bad choice with either speaker.

You will trun a nice Klipsch speaker into a shrill beast.

[dbflash]

I have Cornwalls among other Klipsch speakers.

I just read your post and if it matters my speakers sound the best when they are at least 2 feet away from the back wall and at least 18" inches from the side walls. They sound flat and dull when they are in the corner.

It's really frustrating when you buy the speakers and they don't fit your room.

I had to rearrange my listening room and my Cornwalls no longer fit. I changed them out with my KLF20's because they "fit" the room better.

Have you thought of Heresy's and a sub?

Good luck on your quest and I hope you enjoy what ever speakers you end up with.

Danny

[T2K]

There are people here that could give you the benefit of their personal experience comparing Cornwall/Chorus, if they just would. I doubt you would lose anything with Chorus II's compared to Cornwalls, in fact you might prefer the II's. I had hoped that by now I would have the answer for you but I can't seen to keep any of 3 Scott tube amps running. 3 of 3 are in pit row, one currently being repaired.

Hopefully soon myself and Danny can get together and find out. You game Danny? I have the I's and II's ?

Keith