D-MAN Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 You all know what I think about interconnects and that wires are important, etc. BUT - now I went and confused myself! I A/B'd my Mac C40 (SS) preamp with silver 1/2 meter XLR connects against a Conrad-Johnson PV5 (tube) on AudioQuest copper 1 meter RCA interconnects and what do you think the results were? Pretty much indistinguishable! So where does that come from?! I know, tubes vs. SS, and copper vs. silver, and XLR vs. RCA. Alot going on there... Bottom line is I can't get over the sound quality of the PV5. It even makes copper interconnects sound good! And that just ain't right! I expected the McIntosh C40 to really show it up, but that didn't happen. Conversely, the tubes didn't show up the SS either, but I gotta say - it was ALOT closer than I expected. The tube gear is noisier (S/N) than the SS gear. I still go with the silver interconnects as being better, but the CJ on "cheap" copper RCA interconnects was pretty dang good. More than I would like to admit. I still prefer and recommend silver interconnects, but with some good gear... That's my 2 cents. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 carefull now, although silver has the highest thermal and electrical conductivity, tarnish and relative cost are what deprive silver as use in most electrical usage. Heck Nasa uses gold wiring for the fact that it is good enough for electrical usage and the fact that it will not corrode through normal wear and usage. Although add a little mercury and gold is useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Let me get this straight: You compared two completely different setups, and managed to get them to sound near the same just by changing the interconnects? Any chance in Hell I can get you to come clean and get real on this wire deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 20, 2004 Author Share Posted October 20, 2004 Dean, heck no. I was comparing my latest preamp purchase against my C40. I only had copper interconnects to go from the PV5 to the amp. The Mc C40 has silver XLR connects to the amp. I was suprized by performance of the PV5 comparitively, and it was using cheap copper interconnects to the amp. I couldn't tell them apart except for changes in soundstaging. And if what I have been blathering about cabling incessantly actually mattered, that should not have been the case... I thought it was strange and considering my being a proponent of silver cabling, I thought you guys would get a kick out of it... So why does silver make a difference on the McIntosh SS gear and the tube gear doesn't seem to care? My head hurts! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 Does it mean that you like that PV5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 20, 2004 Author Share Posted October 20, 2004 Yes, I was quite impressed with the CJ, Guy. Took a while to get around to plugging it in because I had new tweeters that I installed, and they were giving me fits until they "broke in". DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 D-man could the difference or lack there of be due to the extended frequency responce of the balanced XLR v RCA cables? You've got to buy or build a set of RCA'a and compare the Mac and the CJ and update this. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 20, 2004 Author Share Posted October 20, 2004 Rick, I have the appropriate cables that I could A/B. It just didn't do it with the preamp shootout. I just plugged in the CJ to basically check it out. Switched back and forth a couple of times, and formed an opinion. Bear in mind this is not a really serious comparison. But it's close enough to get the main drift... I went through all the cable A/B'ing some years ago and arrived at the "silver is best" opinion as did my friends who also participated on my previous tube gear and when I got the Mc gear. I think where I am at is whether the CJ would actually out-perform the Mc C40 IF it was connected with silver interconnects. If so, it means that the CJ actually is a better deal in that: 1) new, it's cheaper in price (about half) of the C40 new 2) I bought a used one at a good price, saving alot more. 3) It's not right that a $650 pre is even close performance-wise to the performance than my $4000 McIntosh (actually paid $2500 new on close-out). But anyway... That means that my previous assumption that I would NEVER have to buy any more gear is potentially OUT THE WINDOW! Damn! And damn your hide, Guy Landau! (who I bought it from)... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 That means that my previous assumption that I would NEVER have to buy any more gear is potentially OUT THE WINDOW! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 "I A/B'd my Mac C40 (SS) preamp with silver 1/2 meter XLR connects against a Conrad-Johnson PV5 (tube) on AudioQuest copper 1 meter RCA interconnects and what do you think the results were? Pretty much indistinguishable! So where does that come from?!" If your Conrad johnson takes XLR connections it would be interesting to repeat the test switching the cables around (RCA on the Mac, XLR on the CJ). You have got way to many variables going on to make this test meaningful. In effect you seem to have arrived at an "all roads lead to Rome" scenario. What I am not sure about is whether you liked the end result of both setups - if you did I dont think I would sweat it much. If you really dont think there is a distinuishable difference then sell the more expensive setup and enjoy the cheaper one - that is a result isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudou Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 ---------------- On 10/19/2004 8:04:18 PM Jay481985 wrote: carefull now, although silver has the highest thermal and electrical conductivity, tarnish and relative cost are what deprive silver as use in most electrical usage. Heck Nasa uses gold wiring for the fact that it is good enough for electrical usage and the fact that it will not corrode through normal wear and usage. Although add a little mercury and gold is useless ---------------- in fact copper is a better thermal and electrical conductor then silver. what make the silver loved by the audiophile is the fact that silver is a better electrical conductor than copper in the high frequencies. so a silver cable should provide better highs and a copper cable should provide better bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 ---------------- On 10/21/2004 4:26:08 AM doudou wrote: ---------------- On 10/19/2004 8:04:18 PM Jay481985 wrote: carefull now, although silver has the highest thermal and electrical conductivity, tarnish and relative cost are what deprive silver as use in most electrical usage. Heck Nasa uses gold wiring for the fact that it is good enough for electrical usage and the fact that it will not corrode through normal wear and usage. Although add a little mercury and gold is useless ---------------- in fact copper is a better thermal and electrical conductor then silver. what make the silver loved by the audiophile is the fact that silver is a better electrical conductor than copper in the high frequencies. so a silver cable should provide better highs and a copper cable should provide better bass. ---------------- actually doudou i had a nasty debate with another member of this forum about the better thermal and electrical conduction of certain metals. i think this is the link http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=52054&pageNo=1&num=30&sessionID={624A278D-0250-4A78-B42C-F11AB0C36632} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudou Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 no need to debate.it s physics. each metal have their own advantages. depending on the frequencies the copper or the silver can be the best electrical conductor. if you have some speaker with weak high some silver cable can help.if you have some klipsch, it can be bad because you can get too many highs. whith biwired speakers some people use a silver cable for high and a copper cable for lows frequencies. anyway the difference between copper cable and silver cable is so little that they don t worth the extra money your right on this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 ---------------- On 10/21/2004 5:01:45 AM doudou wrote: no need to debate.it s physics. each metal have their own advantages. depending on the frequencies the copper or the silver can be the best electrical conductor. if you have some speaker with weak high some silver cable can help.if you have some klipsch, it can be bad because you can get too many highs. whith biwired speakers some people use a silver cable for high and a copper cable for lows frequencies. anyway the difference between copper cable and silver cable is so little that they don t worth the extra money your right on this point. ---------------- why thank you doudou, and thanks for that information about the silver for highs and copper for lows. I didn't know about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Why stop with Silver, get some 24K Gold connectors coated with Teflon, or Platinum. Gimme a Break! A good set of twisted pair interconnects is more than sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 ---------------- On 10/21/2004 1:06:05 PM Frzninvt wrote: Why stop with Silver, get some 24K Gold connectors coated with Teflon, or Platinum. Gimme a Break! A good set of twisted pair interconnects is more than sufficient. ---------------- I'm never going to settle for "sufficient". Damn the torpedoes... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Silver is a better conductor of electricity than either copper or gold (copper is better than gold). However, others factors like ease of oxidation and malleability affect which is superior or not for use in audio...I like to think that physics is important and we should, at least, keep the facts straight. visit this url for a summary: http://www.amm.com/ref/conduct.htm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudou Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 i really think that a good wire made of copper, is the best because it s cheap and because the difference between the other better conductor is so little that the other connectors don t worth the extra money. the difference between the other conductors could even not be heareable. and some of us talk about oxydation or stuff like this, they are right there is oxydation, but if you start considering this you should also think about all the micro pertubations caused by all electrical devices in your house, the current that drive your amp and cd player that is not a perfect sinus wave,... in a nutshell you can pay 1 million $ for your cable but i really think it s a little bit expensive to have a gain of output power of 1/2dB against a normal copper wire or even an unhearable difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinlr Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 ---------------- On 10/20/2004 1:26:17 PM D-MAN wrote: Yes, I was quite impressed with the CJ, Guy. Took a while to get around to plugging it in because I had new tweeters that I installed, and they were giving me fits until they "broke in". DM ---------------- Although I run SS now, a long time ago (15-20 years) I toyed with the idea of switching to tubes. Couldn't afford it then (or now for that matter). After listening, I found that I ALWAYS preferred CJ to ARC or Mac... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I have always found CJ's voicing of ALL their amps very pleasing, both the tube and SS have that "CJ" sound...regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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