Need help w. next upgrade

[meuge]

Over the past year I've slowly built up my system from a pair of RF-3IIs and a cheap Pioneer receiver, into a rack of very decent separates that it is now. However, I just realized that I've spent a lot more on my electronics than I have on my speakers and I am not sure I am getting my money's worth by upgrading the front end equipment anymore. I still feel that I need something better, so I need advice.

Here's my current system details (in the order from source to output):

Source: PC (SPDIF coax out of an M-Audio Revolution 7.1)

DAC: MSB Link III

Preamp: Aragon 28k (wonderful piece of equipment)

Bass Management: Outlaw ICBM-1 (crossover set at 40Hz, 36dB slope)

Amplifier: B&K ST2020

Speakers: RF-3II (pair)

Subwoofer: HSU VTF-2

Misc: DIY interconnects and speakers cables, Monster HTS800 Power conditioner

Now I am fairly sure that my next upgrade should be the speakers, but I am not sure which way I should lean. I figure that if I were to move up the Reference line, RB-75s or RF-7s would be my two choices (the downside being they're really expensive). However, the Heritage line interests me as well, and I was wondering if perhaps a pair of Heresys would be a good choice without breaking the bank(I am not sure if that would be an upgrade at all, really). So as you can see I need the guidance of those who've experienced more Klipsch than I.

Thanks in advance.

[Deang]

RF-7's, LaScalas, or Klipschorns.

[edwinr]

As you've already got a subwoofer, the Heresy would be a good option if you needed to keep costs down. But if I had the choice, I would try for a pair of LaScalas/Belles. The RF-7 is a great loudspeaker as far as conventional 'speakers go, but as you said, they're expensive and can't compete with the dynamics of true horns. The Heritage line offers much more insight and a used pair of Heritage classics is not going to cost the earth.

[nicholtl]

I'd say either RF7's or Khorns, if you've got the room/space/corners. They look a lot classier and sophisticated, but RF7's have the more "wallstreet new-money" type of look.

So I guess it comes down to your taste in women.

jk

[oscarsear]

The system seems 2B set up more for home theater than 2 channel. If you intend 2 listen to 2 channel Khorns are my choice (used ones shouldn't be $ prohibitive). If you intend to employ the sub-woofer in a 2 channel or are fleshing out the 7:1 then RF-7s in front would be my choice.

[meuge]

Thank you for your responses,

The problems is, gentlemen, that I have very little actual space. My room is quite small (see my sig), and RF-3s already dominate it. There is absolutely no way for me to fit Cornwalls, K-horns or Lascalas into my living space at this point : ( or for the next 5-6 years or so. As for Home Theater, it's the least of my concerns. The system is 95% for music, and will definitely remain a 2-channel one for the foreseeable future, both because pretty much all of my electronics is strictly 2-channel (DAC, Preamp, Amp) and because I have no room for more speakers.

[kev313]

Forte and Chorus are great smaller options for the Heritage sound. The investment is fairly minimal (especially when considering Forte compared to the new Refs.) and, generally, can be largely recouped if need be.

[meuge]

Fortes are an interesting idea. Can someone tell me how Fortes compare to both my RF-3IIs and let's say RF-7s?

[maxg]

Some questions:

1. What music do you listen to?

2. What is it about your current sound you do not like?

3. Rate the following in terms of importance to you:

i/ Bass

ii/ Mids

iii/ Highs

iv/ Soundstaging

v/ Image size

vi/ Image depth

4. Choose which of the following applies to you:

i/ I want that live - in-your-face sound.

ii/ I want a balanced sound.

iii/ I want a laid back sound I can listen to all day.

iv/ I want to hear every detail of the music.

v/ I dont give a sh1t for detail I want musical.

vi/ Accuracy is important to me.

vii/ Screw accuracy - make it sound nice.

viii/Much of my listening is done at high volume levels.

ix/ I generally listen at low volumes.

5. If you could choose one thing that your future system would do perfectly what would it be? (for example vocals, strings, a piano, drums etc. etc.)

6. Have you been exposed to other systems that made you sit up and think - my god that sounds good - way better than my system? If so what were they?

7. In your audio journey so far what would you say has made the greatest difference to your sound, what was that difference (vocals, soundstaging, whatever).

8. Do you really think a bunch of guys on an online forum can help you choose the speaker that is right for you? (dont answer this question - yet).

Oh that will do - I am tired and I am supposed to be working. Probably best to answer these questions for yourself rather than submitting them to us, but if you want to share it might give us a few pointers as to what you are looking for.

Also, I hate to say it, but there are other makes of speaker out there. Remember this is a Klipsch forum so we can only advise best on Klipsch speakers. Other manufacturer's sites would probably make other recommendations. On the other hand you already have RF3's so shut up Max.

That's better.

[meuge]

That's a great little questionnaire Max. Let me try and provide all that information.

1. I listen to a lot of different music. Primarily I listen to classical, classic rock (beatles, eagles, zeppelin, etc), alternative rock (radiohead, etc.), and a variety of other genres.

2. There's nothing that I can put my finger on immediately, but I feel that it can get better. I am not looking for pretty sound, I just want the music to be reproduced as close to the source as possible.

3. I)Mids, II)Highs, III)Soundtaging, IV)Bass, V)Image size, VI) Image depth

4. I generally listen at moderate volume levels - w. avg SPL of 80-85dB. Accuracy and detail are both very important to me.

5. My instrument of reference is piano. It's one of the main reasons I added a subwoofer -> I wanted the musical punch of the low notes, the same way it feels when you're 10ft away from a 75-year-old Steinway grand.

6. Not at all - I haven't heard a better sound system (I know it gets a lot better, but I haven't had a chance to audition better equipment).

7. Aside from getting the RF-3IIs in the first place, my two most impressive upgrades were my amplifier (which made a HUGE difference in the size of the sounstage and instrument separation) and my preamp (which gave me an additional improvement in instrument separation, as well as detail).

8. I'll answer it -> I've gotten a lot of recommendations on this forum, and then made my own decisions that I am very happy with.

[maxg]

Well the next bit is where is gets controversial. This is just my opinion - others will not agree:

1. I listen to a lot of different music. Primarily I listen to classical, classic rock (beatles, eagles, zeppelin, etc), alternative rock (radiohead, etc.), and a variety of other genres.

Instinctively I would rule out the forte. I have heard it labour with classical many times and just dont think it does the genre justice. Even worse - it is the best for classic rock I know. Heresies fit quite well so far - they do classical nicely and classic rock 2nd only to the forte.

2. There's nothing that I can put my finger on immediately, but I feel that it can get better. I am not looking for pretty sound, I just want the music to be reproduced as close to the source as possible.

That is good news. We can stay horn loaded then.

3. I)Mids, II)Highs, III)Soundtaging, IV)Bass, V)Image size, VI) Image depth

More controversy coming. Not the RF7 either. I spent a good few hours at the weekend listening to a pair of RF7's on a not dissimilar setup to the one you describe. Main strengths - image depth, size and bass - things low on your list of importance. Main weakness - mids. Heresies still very much in the running.

4. I generally listen at moderate volume levels - w. avg SPL of 80-85dB. Accuracy and detail are both very important to me.

Any klipsch will play this level without breaking sweat (or through a single watt of power). Accuracy and detail imply all horn loaded to me - or at least as horn loaded as you can fit in your room. La Scala if you can shoe"horn" them in otherwise the Heresy is looking better and better.

5. My instrument of reference is piano. It's one of the main reasons I added a subwoofer -> I wanted the musical punch of the low notes, the same way it feels when you're 10ft away from a 75-year-old Steinway grand.

Keep that sub - you will need it with the Heresy's.

6. Not at all - I haven't heard a better sound system (I know it gets a lot better, but I haven't had a chance to audition better equipment).

That makes recommending on a forum more risky. One man's meat and all that. Any chance of you getting out there to hear some systems? There must be some forum residents nearby...

7. Aside from getting the RF-3IIs in the first place, my two most impressive upgrades were my amplifier (which made a HUGE difference in the size of the sounstage and instrument separation) and my preamp (which gave me an additional improvement in instrument separation, as well as detail).

Interesting that you dont list the sub - which you bought for a very specfic reason it seems.

8. I'll answer it -> I've gotten a lot of recommendations on this forum, and then made my own decisions that I am very happy with.

Well that makes me a bit more confident too. From the look of things I would say that if you cant fit a pair of LaScala's into your room the Heresy looks to be a good choice. Keep that sub though. Heresy's bass dies bellow 50 Hz. I cannot comment on the Cornwall as an option - I have never heard it - but from your list of importance I dont get the feeling it is right for you.

I would suggest a 2nd hand pair from ebay. At least if you dont like it you can always sell if for the money you paid if you shop wisely.

[kev313]

I agree with Max on some key points (If not all. Honestly, I don't know as I am too lazy today to read the thorough questionnaire and response!).

Fortes are not the best choice for either classic or jazz. On the other hand, Cornwalls fit the bill quite nicely for both choices.

Fortes, however, are among the best rock speakers I have heard.

[nicholtl]

Wow, Max, that was one of the most intelligent and thorough questionaires ever made, and some damn fine advice in response to Meuge's answers as well.

So it looks like either the Scalas or Heresey's...?

However, I'd also like to point that it's interesting that you (Max) found the RF7's to be lacking in mid-range, and ample in bass reproduction. While that generally seems to be the majority's sentiments towards the speaker, mine are somewhat reversed. I do not find the mid-range lacking in any respect, while I find the bass far, FAR less than adequate. And I do have good amplification, mind you. 250 watts per channel. It's not that the RF7's can't hold their own as a 2-channel tower, which they can (and which is why I'm asking they not be totally removed from the running just yet), I'm just saying I personally don't think they can or should be described as having full, rich bass.

But again, as it's said time and time again, to each his own.

[maxg]

Nicho,

It is not that I find the RF7 particularly lacking in midrange - just that I do not think the midrange of the RF7 is its strength.

"However, I'd also like to point that it's interesting that you (Max) found the RF7's to be lacking in mid-range, and ample in bass reproduction. While that generally seems to be the majority's sentiments towards the speaker, mine are somewhat reversed. I do not find the mid-range lacking in any respect, while I find the bass far, FAR less than adequate"

Interesting analysis of your own sound. I would suspect that you are getting some interesting room effects in there that might account for the super midrange / poor bass. Have you listened to the speakers in other rooms or setups?

I would be surprised if you found similar results in many installations. That said - it doesnt really much matter as long as you are happy with the way you have them playing now.

I am also not saying that the RF7 is definitely out - merely that it seemed from the answers that they would not be the first speaker I would try out to get what the owner appears to be looking for.

Frankly I think most Klipsch speakers can be made to sound very different with different electronics and sources behind them and of course in different rooms.

With that in mind it could well be that an RF7 installation could be tuned to provide exactly what appears to be desired. I am simply of the opinion that such a solution might be harder to implement and get right than the ones I proferred.

That I could be wrong is not beyond the realm of course...

YMMV / IMHO and all the ususal I said it but I didnt mean it stuff.

[meuge]

This makes me wish I could listen to a pair of Heresys. Is there anyone within a couple of hours of NYC who would be willing to host me?

[Myhamish]

Sure, come on up. Up to Utica and the back way up to Watertown, then over the bridge ( Laphroaigh at the duty free is nice) then up and over west of Ottawa. 10 hour drive. Sorry, I wish it was closer. We were really well taken care of by New Yorkers during a big parade in NYC a couple years ago and I'd like to return the favour. Anyhow, if you do decide to come up, you're more than welcome, but dress warm. BTW, Happy Thanksgiving down there. Hamish

[nicholtl]

Max, once again, some great points. I bow down to your expertise.

Eugene, well...if you're willing to drive across the nation to the other coast, you're welcome to crash here.

[3dzapper]

meuge, I'm about 21/2 or 3 hours away in Rhode Island. I'd be glad to host you anytime after next week. I'm no longer working so if you have a weekday off, no problem.

Rick

[meuge]

Thanks for the offers everyone. I am starting a new course on Monday, so I don't know my schedule, but I'll definitely let you guys know as soon as I find out my schedule.

[maxg]

Thanks Mark,

You know I am toying with putting all this onto a spreadsheet with a variety of speakers broken down according to what I think they sound like.

The idea would be you punch in answers to the questions and the system "calculates" the best speakers for you.

I just drafted something for a play and it works OK. Could be good for a laugh...