jorjen Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Toying with the idea of picking up either a Transfiguration Spirit Mk3 or a Dynavector XX-2. What do you guys think? I will be using it with my VPI Scoutmaster, Blueberry w/Cream(either will work well with my Cream option), VRD's and Khorns. I do not really have the luxury of listening first, hence the need for some input. I listen to a variety of vinyl, Classic Rock, Jazz, Blues and a little classical thrown in on occasion. If I miss the mark a little this time around, I can always sell it and try something else, but I would like to get close. Oh, I also realize I may have to do a little tube rolling to find the right combo. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Couple of questions as I do not know either of these carts: 1. What arm are you running on the Scoutmaster? 2/ What specs on the carts do you have? IF you can come up with apparent mass of the arm/cart proposed combo, compliance etc. we shouldbe able to derive, near enough, the resonant frequency of each. This will only tell us if one or other appears to be a complete nono. IT will not tell us how it sounds - that is for you to decide. My take is that both companies have very good reputations so I would be surpised if either sounds horrible. Whatsort of price range are we talking for these (sorry that was question 3). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted December 4, 2004 Author Share Posted December 4, 2004 Thanks for the thoughts Max, I greatly appreciate them. But I have already researched compliance, compatabilities, etc. with table, arm, Cream and so on and found that either cartridge will work nicely with my rig in those respects. What I was looking for was more along the lines of comments relating to sonic signatures, differences and/or similarities, strengths/weaknesses in that area. Both cartridges are in the $900.00 - $1000.00 range slightly used/low hours. Thanks again Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Jordan, For around $900 you can get a used Shelter 901 in good condition. For $600 you can get a Denon DL-S1. The Denon is an amzing cartridge and a real bargain. It also works very well with the JMW-9 tonearm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 I am glad you said that Guy - I dont want to appear like I am pushng a cartridge just because I run it. (It is a DAMN FINE CARTRIDGE though). Funnily enough I heard a cartridge I think might be even better at the show (and I am not refering to the 90X either - still not heard that one). No I am refering to the ZYX Airy cartridge. I would need a while to confirm what I think I heard - and at 2,500 Euros (about $75,000 with the way the dollar is falling these days - well, $3,250 at least) I am not going to run and and grab a couple but.... It might just be the best there is, anywhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted December 4, 2004 Author Share Posted December 4, 2004 Guy, Thank you as well for your thoughts. I have researched this topic long and hard believe me. Initially I left no stone unturned. With that thought in mind I absolutely had to include the Shelter 901 on my list of cartridges. However, one of the first things I did after selecting the "Cream" option I ended up with was to go over a trimmed down list of candidates with Mark. The 901 was one of the least compatible(gain too high)cartridges with the cream option I have. So, I eliminated the 901 from the list. But, from things I am hearing, the Transfiguration should have no problem competing with the 901 and is more compatible with my "Cream". But, I do not know that for sure so I am kind of flying blindly regarding a selection based on sound/characteristics. I do not live in an area conducive to demos or auditions of gear. I have also been considering the Denon you spoke of as well and am still considering it, seems like a Helluva bargain. I was just kind of interested to see if anyone had heard both of these cartridges with somewhat similar gear. A long shot I know. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 The Spirit is supposed to have the Transfiguration signature of transparency and musicality to a high degree, similar in that way to my Transfiguration Temper which I like a lot. I am not familiar with the Dynavector or Shelter, don't know how they would compare. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 For what it's worth, my Transfiguration Temper "W" works beautifully with the "Cream." It wasn't on the Jensen compatability list but matches very well nontheless. The output on the Temper is slightly higher at .5mV. Most carts on that list were about .3mV if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 ---------------- On 12/4/2004 2:23:00 PM jorjen wrote: Guy, ...............I have also been considering the Denon you spoke of as well and am still considering it, seems like a Helluva bargain. I was just kind of interested to see if anyone had heard both of these cartridges with somewhat similar gear. A long shot I know. Thanks again. ---------------- jorjen, I am currently using the Denon DL-S1 in my system at present. I am also using the Expressimo "Heavyweight" counterwieght on my JMW 9 tonearm in lieu of the stock VPI dropped counterweight which I have on my other JMW 9 armwand. The S1 is an outstanding cartridge, and a steal at the price. The beauty of it all is, I can pack up the tonearm and bring it with me on a run to San Jose during the Xmas-New Years holiday weekend. My son's team is playing in a tournament at Logitech Ice. You could audition it for a day. An easy plug and play situation. Send me an email if interested. Klipsch out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted December 4, 2004 Author Share Posted December 4, 2004 You are right of course Mark, that is a very, very generous offer, Thank you very much for the thought Jazman. When I put my first list together, the 901 was at the top. I figured it would give me the most bang in a range I could afford(finding a nice used one). I think now that Mark has gotten the 901/Cream situation through my thick skull(he had previously made it very clear, I was just not grasping it), I will probably hunt for the right deal and go with it. Do you think one would lose much by going with the 501? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 ---------------- The Shelter 901 is a pretty high output at 1400uV - about 3X what is typical for use with Cream...It is a compatible load, but with very H.O. compared to the others on Jordan's list. mdeneen ---------------- Isn't that about 9 db higher than the 0.3-0.5 mv carts jorjen has been considering? Some will be OK with a big jump like that from their CD/other to their phono, but it would be uncomfortable for me. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 There is some confusion here. The Shelter 901 has about 0,5 mV output according to the specs. That should not be a problem either way for the phono stage Makr has produced. Of more concern would be the match with the arm. The Shelter is a very low compliance cartridge and seems to have problems with unipivot designs. That is not to say that it will not work with any unipivot - merely that it is hard to find one that performs well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted December 5, 2004 Author Share Posted December 5, 2004 I found this on another site Mark. Shelter Japan 901 Cartridge Product Features: Output voltage: 0.5mV @ 1kHz Channel balance: within 0.8dB @ 1kHz Stylus tip: 0.3 x 0.7 mil Elliptical Nude Diamond Weight: 9.1 grams DC resistance: 14 ohms Tracking force: 1.4 to 2.0 grams Recommended impedance: 20 ohms with step-transformer, 100 ohms with a head amplifier, and 47k with a a high gain amplifier. The Shelter 901 has won the prestigious IMAGE HI FI AWARD for best cartridge for 2004. Another site. The Shelter 901 sells for $1,500 and is one of the very best cartridges regardless of price. Be sure to consider matching the 901 with the Shelter Transformer. TECHNICAL DATA Output Voltage - 0.5mV Elliptical Stylus Tracking Force 1.4-2g DCR - 14 ohm Weight - 9.1 g Recommended Load Impedance: Transformer - 20ohm Head Amp - 100 ohm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 ---------------- On 12/4/2004 2:37:35 PM LarryC wrote: The Spirit is supposed to have the Transfiguration signature of transparency and musicality to a high degree, similar in that way to my Transfiguration Temper which I like a lot. I am not familiar with the Dynavector or Shelter, don't know how they would compare. Larry ---------------- Larry, This reads a bit like an evangelical sermon...or maybe a lecture in a seminary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 ---------------- On 12/5/2004 10:26:18 AM fini wrote: ---------------- On 12/4/2004 2:37:35 PM LarryC wrote: The Spirit is supposed to have the Transfiguration signature of transparency and musicality to a high degree, similar in that way to my Transfiguration Temper which I like a lot. I am not familiar with the Dynavector or Shelter, don't know how they would compare. Larry ---------------- Larry, This reads a bit like an evangelical sermon...or maybe a lecture in a seminary. ---------------- Well, it is a Transfiguration, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Well this is a red letter day and a half. A piece of technical data I PROVIDED - was correct - or appears to be.... I am walking taller already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted December 5, 2004 Author Share Posted December 5, 2004 Good job Max! Oh, and be careful not to bump your head. Mark, With so many cartridges out there, I don't know how you can keep track of them all. Great job considering. Well, I am in somewhat of a quandry once again however. I was aware at the beginning of my cartridge quest of some concerns using the Shelter with the unipivot JMW-9 arm, but I kind of swept that fact under the rug. I do suppose now however, it is something that must be considered further. It is my understanding that in this area the Dynavector supposedly mates very well with the JMW. Can anyone confirm this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Just as a by the by I got the details on the shelter from the high end broker in Holland (I think) http://www.highend-broker.com/index1.htm Most of his prices are not all that special - but for some reason his pricing on Shelter is extraordinarily good: In Euro ($1.34) Shelter 301 - 399 Shelter 501 - 675 Shelter 901 - 975 Shelter 90X - 1700 Now I have not bought from this guy - nor do I know anyone that has - so I cant recommend diretly - but these prices have got to be investigated if you are looking for a Shelter. Tech specs for each are a click away from the link above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted December 5, 2004 Author Share Posted December 5, 2004 Max, Good intel. That is about what, roughly $1300.00 or so for the 901? I found an ad from a guy in New York that says he is selling a "limited quantity at this price" of 901's for $1000.00. They are not on Audiogon, but he says he has Audiogon references. I have mailed him for pictures and his Audiogon username or other references. I have not received a response at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 IF...those are new, boxed warrantied and with the paperwork - BUY ONE! $1000 is a staggeringly good price. Of course the High End broker's prices looked better when the $ was one to one with the Euro but like most European Businesses at the moment he is getting killed on price. Even so the Shelter price is almost too good to be true. Remember the retail is something like 1700. My supplier in Greece buys at a higher price than this guy sells. Actually if you confirm the prices let me know if you can get 2. I think Tony might well be in the market for one soon - as soon as he gets a TT in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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