thirdeye Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Just wondering if it is worth the money to invest in getting them on spikes, mainly to help with bass, and be able to give them a little tilt instead of pointing straight ahead on the floor. And please share your experiance with Spike vs. no Spike pros or cons on a speaker of this type, sometimes I worry doing something like this could cause more negative effects uncoupling from the floor like that...Loss of bass would be bad. Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 If there on smooth floor you might try Grippers from wal-mart.....i got grippers on all my Klipsch and seems to help.HDBR..Andy..told me about this mod long time ago.Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 ---------------- On 1/18/2005 6:27:46 PM thirdeye wrote: Just wondering if it is worth the money to invest in getting them on spikes, mainly to help with bass, and be able to give them a little tilt instead of pointing straight ahead on the floor. And please share your experiance with Spike vs. no Spike pros or cons on a speaker of this type, sometimes I worry doing something like this could cause more negative effects uncoupling from the floor like that...Loss of bass would be bad. Thanks guys ---------------- I use 3 spikes on my Belle center speaker (heavy commercial/hotel grade carpet/padding on concrete floor). IMO this took some of the "boom" out, giving what I would call a somewhat smoother mid bass response without that mid bass hump/boom. The purpose of the spikes is to "mass-load" the speaker (or any other component). It produces a similar effect as if the speaker were very very much heavier than it really is. The idea is that the more massive a component is, the more vibration energy will be absorbed/transfered to the supporting structure, in this case, the floor. Since the speaker is sitting on 3 very small points of contact, the weight per square inch at the point of contact becomes extremely high - as if the speaker weighed 1000's of pounds. It also provides a "high pressure points" of contact to "bleed" the vibrations produced by the speaker, away from the speaker, and into the supporting structure. In general, the spikes are not high enough to acoustically uncouple the speaker from the floor boundary. The only way to know if you like the results is to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 BobG recommended adding weight to the top of Corns, see: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1299/sandbagging.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdeye Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thanks it seems maybe the weight on top MAy be the way to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Our buddy Tim Babb (NoDisc) in Chicago recently did this with his Cornwalls. He says it was a huge improvement in the bass and overall image quality. I think he's going to be spiking some of his other components now that he's heard them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 "Huge improvement" is a loosely used audiophile term. Translated into standard English it means "Barely discernible difference." Sometimes these subtle differences are important, but adding spikes is not the kind of difference that is going to bowl someone over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I tried my 7's on spikes (on quarters) set on hardwood floors. I immediately noticed a loss of bass and the highs were screeching. I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 ---------------- On 1/19/2005 1:58:52 PM Colin wrote: BobG recommended adding weight to the top of Corns, see: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1299/sandbagging.htm ---------------- This is a somewhat useless idea, simply because 80Lbs (as used in the article) is hardly enough extra mass to stop or absorb cabinet vibration. The spikes on the other hand provide a "channel" for vibrations to travel away from the speaker enclosure and not be reflected back or internalized. The spikes, from a physics point of view, provide a strong mechanical connection/path for the speaker to be coupled to the much larger mass of the building floor, and therefore to the building itself. The one concept this article hits on that I've suspected for a long time may be true, is that of the speaker cabinet/structure vibration interferes with the (generally) very small cone/diaphram excursions found in a horn loaded system where the amount of motion induced by cabinet vibration may be a significant percent relative to the diaphram motion. Imagine the diaphram moving back & forth, hardly visible (if at all), yet the cabinet structure is making this driver/diaphram jiggle around (up & down, sideways, back & forth) as it moves. I first noticed this when I secured my Khorns, literally, to the foundation of my house. This was done in an attempt to improve bass performance. The big surprise was that the most improvement came in the middle and higher frequencies, everything was more focused. The idea was to mass load the speakers to the largest, most massive thing available, in this case, the earth itself. You don't have to take my word for it, but IMHO, 80LBS doesn't cut it. At one time I even had 300LBS of distributed weight on each of my turntable racks. Right idea, wrong implementation. And consider this. Even if you use the unsightly sand bags, the spikes will still be of benefit as the speaker will be mass loaded even more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 ---------------- On 1/21/2005 8:50:23 AM paulieparrot wrote: "Huge improvement" is a loosely used audiophile term. Translated into standard English it means "Barely discernible difference." Sometimes these subtle differences are important, but adding spikes is not the kind of difference that is going to bowl someone over. ---------------- I just wanted to point out that I have experienced differences due to spiking speakers that have caused people to bowl over. At the same time, I've tried spiking other speakers and the difference is barely noticeable at best. In concept, reducing cabinet vibration is only beneficial when cabinet vibration is already an issue. I believe this is the reason that the results between people vary so much. My rule of thumb is always to get a "deaf" someone to listen and if they hear a big improvement (not just a change), then I know I'm not just hearing things. Btw, adding spikes helps couple the speaker to the floor...not decouple it. Coupling is a good thing because it causes the floor to move with the speaker; effectively making the speaker move less. Just trying to clarify some possible confusion I read at the top of the thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I tried spiking my RF7's to my hardwood floors (had the spikes on quarters). I immediately noticed much higher highs and a definite, big time, loss of bass. I removed the spikes, threw away Klipsch's goofy plastic outrigger feet and stuck small rubber pads to the bottoms of the speakers. They sound great. That was my experience. I'm sure others will disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndGenKlipsch Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 I spiked my Forte II's and I was very impressed with the results. I would recommend this mod to everyone. I only paid $5 for my spikes from Parts Express so if you don't like the results you wouldn't be out of much money. I've also heard of people putting spikes on their risors so you could keep your risors AND spike the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 ---------------- On 1/22/2005 11:43:15 AM 2ndGenKlipsch wrote: I've also heard of people putting spikes on their risors so you could keep your risors AND spike the speakers. ---------------- On my Belle center speaker I simply put the spikes under the cabinet, behind the riser. The spikes are slightly taller than the riser and the riser conceals the spikes from view. Also IMO it's better to use 3 spikes than four if you can. This increases the pressure per square inch even more, thereby also increasing the effect of mass loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 After the spikes are added how high is the speaker above the floor? JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 ---------------- On 1/22/2005 12:36:38 PM JJKIZAK wrote: After the spikes are added how high is the speaker above the floor? JJK ---------------- Depends on the length of the spikes. They are available in different sizes, tips, & lengths. Some can be screwed in. Some may not be tall enough to lift the riser/speaker off the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Putting spikes on top of quarters kind of defeats the purpose. A spike doesn't stick to a quarter very well and is likely to slide on the surface. Also, the quarter has a much larger surface area than the tip of the spike which means even less coupling to the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 You guys should try both of HDBR ideas i think,,,,to use Grippers from wal-mart,,,and if your Corns have a riser....make board to fit inside the frame and fill with sand then put the board in and then the Grippers on to.Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 ---------------- On 1/22/2005 7:01:35 PM ricktate wrote: You guys should try both of HDBR ideas i think,,,,to use Grippers from wal-mart,,,and if your Corns have a riser....make board to fit inside the frame and fill with sand then put the board in and then the Grippers on to.Rick ---------------- No offense Rick, but I think you migh be missing the point. The issue here is "coupling", not isolation (or "decoupling"). These "Grippers" are resiliant. Seems to me that they would provide more isolation. If thats what the problem is (needing more isolation, so the sound doesn't interfere with a home theater or neighbors in a room below for instance), then by all means go for the isolation. But in my experience, coupling the speaker to room boundaries and sturucture is far more beneficial to good uncolored sound unless of course the supporting structure is weak (an easily flexed floor for instance). The article Colin pointed out makes it clear that the speaker cabinet structure, if vibrating enough, can cause a form of Doppler Distortion as the vibrating driver attached to the cabinet vibrates in modes other than just back & forth. And my previous comments still stand. The amount of sand you put under the riser is not substantial enough to really do any good. And, in effect, its attempting to do the same thing that the spikes do, which is mass loading, except that the spikes are much effective at doing this, without the additional weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 While on the outset it does seem like Grippers would isolate,,,,its not the case,,,,they actually grip the floor in fact they hook it up to the floor....i did it to my Scalas and although i didnt A-B them to confirm it ,,,i think it does help. While spikes could do same thing but isnt better to make sure the speaker is hooked to the floor without transferring the vibration to the floor?Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Just a short thanks artto for pegging my curiosity meter. While I followed your explanation, I didn't fully understand what was really going on. So....off to my local stress, mass properties, vibration folks in design engineering. Their concensus explanation (none of them were audio types) was one I hope is correct for it seems plausible. First thing they pointed out was that no two surfaces are perfectly flat. Therefore there is uneveness, voids and high spots at the boundary between the two objects. As the speaker vibrates, the two surfaces contact each other non-uniformly and randomly therefore making the complete transferance of vibrations from the speaker to the floor all but impossible. One guy likened it to a rocking, hopping, dancing about movement albeit at a microscopic level. Once the boundary of the speaker/floor is changed from two flat surfaces to three or four points, the issue of this "dancing" goes away and essentially the floor and the speaker seemingly become one. Naturally, this peaked the interest of my geek engineer friends to the extent that they began talking (mostly with paper & pencil) in mathematical terms. I got out of there as fast as I could. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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