BEC Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Jim E The padding in the old Cornwall II set that I have seems to be very similar to tissue paper, perhaps a hundred or more layers of it. Very fragile stuff after 35 years. These "Verticals" have bases that would seem to me to indicate these were meant to sit upright. With these bases, they look a bit funny on their sides. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Ok gang, here's my first bit of input. Sorry I don't have a drawing program but I'll do my best to be descriptive. I'll turn a cabinet inside out later today, but here's something I put together for another member last year. Grill board measurements for standard (horizontal horns) Cornwall Height 34" Width 23 1/2 " But you would do well to measure your opening, then subtract about 1/8" from each dimension to allow for fabric to wrap around the edges. All driver cutout holes are centered on vertical axis and measured from top of board.. 1 5/8 to top of mid/high cutout mid/high cutout is 7 3/8 high x 11 wide so bottom of mid/high cutout is 9 from top woofer hole is 14 1/2 from top it is 14" in diameter so bottom is at 28 1/2 from top of grille my speakers have 4 rectangular port cutouts each of which begins 3/4 from bottom, is 2 1/4 high and 4 3/4 wide. So tops of cutouts are 3" from bottom of grille. These are spaced equidistantly across bottom port area. Again, check your speaker locations before building these grill boards. These are from 1974 Cornwall II Horizontal horn models. Mine appear to be made from tempered board (Masonite) 1/8 thick. Front may have been primed and painted black before installation of black grille cloth material. Cloth appears to have been stretched and glued into place. Perhaps 3M77 spray glue, as it is firmly attached to the front surface of the board, wrapped around edges about 1", then glued again. Velcro 'fuzzy' squares about 1x 1 1/2" are positioned where the standoff blocks are located on front cabinet face. 1 x 2" vertically in each corner. Metal 'brass' Klipsch plaque is adhered to fabric top center about 3/4 inch from top. Hope this helps, which drawing program are you guys using? I'll see about getting it so I can make updates. WIll measure cabinet fully today. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 A note on cabinet construction. DO NOT attempt to make major changes in the internal dampening material. The original is simply a thin tissue paper-like pad sewn together in spots. Looks like a packing type material used for packing china or something. I would think that an eggcrate foam or 1/2 carpet pad would be fairly similar. RESIST THE TEMPTATION to stuff the box with loose fibreglass as you have seen in other cabinets. This does increase the apparent volume that the cabinet presents to the woofer and will mess with PWK's original calculations. Generally, the theory is that you need only dampen one of each of two parallel sides to reduce standing waves. That is the back, one side, and bottom or top. I'll check mine later today. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 ---------------- On 1/23/2005 11:07:28 AM colterphoto1 wrote: A note on cabinet construction. DO NOT attempt to make major changes in the internal dampening material. The original is simply a thin tissue paper-like pad sewn together in spots. Looks like a packing type material used for packing china or something. I would think that an eggcrate foam or 1/2 carpet pad would be fairly similar. RESIST THE TEMPTATION to stuff the box with loose fibreglass as you have seen in other cabinets. This does increase the apparent volume that the cabinet presents to the woofer and will mess with PWK's original calculations. Generally, the theory is that you need only dampen one of each of two parallel sides to reduce standing waves. That is the back, one side, and bottom or top. I'll check mine later today. Michael ---------------- Michael, Thank you for you input. I have included your port openings and driver placement information in the attached file. I have cleaned up the drawing a little for clarity. What is the opening sizes (height and width) of your tweet and mid horn and is there a radius on these openings? I agree that changing the dampening material would change the original design criteria. This should be done with care if one uses a different material. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Jim, thanks for updating so quickly, but my measurements were for the GRILL CLOTH board, not the speaker mounting board, or motor board that is part of the actual cabinet. Should probably be a separate drawing. I'm finally taking Christmas tree down, which will give me room to tear into my Left Cornwall. I'll give complete measurements later this afternoon. Thanks, Lots of guys are going to appreciate your drawing skills! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Very nice plans! However, the PORT DIMENSION IS INCORRECT. Type in "Cornwall Plan" into the simple search on this forum and see the original dimensions I posted for the 1977 Cornwall. All dimensions are INTERNAL dimensions. This includes the INTERNAL dimensions of the port! INTERNAL port dimension: 9 1/2" X 22 3/8" X 3 1/8" I repeat: The internal port hieght is 3 1/8". I just measured it again - it's right. Also, the sides of the port have an extra layer of 3/4" plywood to get the correct internal width. Look at the black cabinets in this thread. The port holes in the motor board are NOT the full height of the port. Port motor board holes: 10 1/2" x 2 3/16" (two of them with a 7/8" divider in the middle). There is an internal lip behind the port holes! (The port holes in the motorboard are 2 3/16" while the internal height of the port is 3 1/8".) It is imperitive that the port hole is correct for these cabinets to be tuned properly. Just trying to help. Thanks for the GREAT WORK! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Okay Jim, here ya go! Just measured everything I could find on the exterior of my Cornwall s/n 6N099 CWO, oiled walnut with black grilles. External dimensions are 25 3/8 w x 35 3/4 h x 15 1/2 d Motor board measures 23 3/4 w x 34 1/4 h Riser is 2" h x 23 1/2 w x 14 1/2 d, it is attached flush to the rear edge of cabinet, with wood grain running around the base (horizontaly) Removeable back panel is 23 5/8 w x 34 3/16 h (slightly smaller than opening) Here is the tough part to describe. The speaker openings on the front panel, commonly known as the motor board. On mine, all speakers are mounted on the rear of the panel with #10 or 1/4" wood screws. No bolts or fasteners protrude through the front of the front panel, which is painted black along with all exposed edges of that panel. Across the bottom, there are two port openings, 7/8 from bottom, extending to 3" from bottom, beginning 1" in from either edge and with a 7/8 space between them. The woofer hole is centrally located beginning at 6" from bottom edge, extending to 19 1/4 from bottom, so it is 13 1/4 in diameter. Also centrally located along the vertical axis are openings for the K77 tweeter and K55/K600 squawker horn. From the top edge, the tweeter opening begins at 2 1/8 from top, is 1 5/8 high, and extends to 4 3/4 from top edge. It is 4 1/4 wide and the corners are slightly radiused, looks like a 1/2" drill was used at each corner point, then connected with jig saw cuts. As a check this opening is 9 3/4 from either side. The Midrange opening begins at 5 1/4 from top edge, extending 3 1/2 in height, to a point 8 3/4 from top edge. It is 10 3/16 in width. As a check, this opening is 6 3/4 from either side. More to come as I tear into these babies. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 Andy and Michael, Thank you for the dimensions. I will correct the drawing and re-post. There has been a little confusion but I believe I'll get past it. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 Andy and all, I see the problem. The two 3/4" self supports are and have been on each side of the ports under the port shelf. If you subtract 1 1/2" from the 23 7/8" internal width it comes out to 22 3/8". I added the 3 1/8" dimension to clarify the shelf location and relocated the ports vertically another .0625" higher. I'm sure there are several versions of these Cornwalls, so keep the info coming. By the way...these are all temp drawings until it's finished. So don't accept them as gospel. The final drawing will be in pdf form with much better res and detail. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Nice! Jim, that port and cabinet plans now look identical to my 1977 CWO Cornwalls. Excellent work. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 Thank you Andy. Now all I need is info on the other versions and a little measurement verification. There is most likely some small variations year to year. Didn't the Cornwall's use several different tweets. I'm still trying to learn Klipsch history on the various "Heritage" models. I am least familiar with the Cornwall and any information could be of help. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I believe K77 was always the tweeter. For midrange, the driver went from K55 to K57, back to K55 and horn went from metal to plastic composite, I have each. The mounting hole I gave you was for the metal horn. For plastic, if you rear mount to the motor board, the hole would be 3 1/8 x 10 1/4, again with radius. I think that they would work best surface mounted to reduce the diffraction caused by the 3/4 plywood. With the plastic variety, there is a wide mounting flange and the screw holes are countersunk so you could use a router to create a recess 1/4" deep for the mounting flange, which would clear a hole 5" x 11 5/8. The recess would be 5/8" on the flat/long side of horn, and 3/4" on short sides. Hope that's clear. Haven't taken my old corns apart yet, but surely theres a way to surfact mount the metal horns. I also understand that Klipsch parts has a 'Z' bracket, which allows the tweeter to be surfact mounted as well. There's no way to get the big magnet through a surface mounted hole without disassembling the driver. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Jim... those are great. A little at the time, all the heritage models plans will be available in great detail. Actually it would be a simple matter to create a second drawing (I would avoid the temptation of including the info on the same drawing) of the vertical Cornwall. There seems to be quite some interest in that model... and you'd only have to move the openings around. ---------------- On 1/22/2005 8:47:27 PM Jim E wrote: Here is another picture of a different model. Note this one has butt joints instead of mitered corners. Also note the dampning material. It looks like tear-off paper packing. ---------------- That speaker looks very familiar.... Actually like Tom mentionned, it's a decorator model with butt joints and exposed plywood edges. I could have re-veneered it, but I kinda liked the industial look, so I refinished the original wood. Ironically all my heritage (two pairs of heresys, the cornwalls and the Khorns) are decorator models. I realise these drawings aren't the final versions... and not to criticize... but I think uniformizing the hatching would help make the drawing clearer. For example, all the x-sectioned pieces (view threw the piece) would look better with the same black 45o hatch... flipped 90o like you did to distinguish the different panels. All the corner blocks would also look better without hatch but use just the dashed line. Try avoiding the same hatch in a different colour to represent I different items... as when someone prints it out on a B&W laser... they'll be hard to distinguish. Sorry about that... they are great drawings! Working around (reading) tech drawings all day kinda makes me @nal on little details sometimes... ---------------- On 1/22/2005 9:29:04 PM Tom Mobley wrote: Keep the pics and drawings coming, I'm getting more enthused about the Cornwall build project already. ---------------- you can't help it, but have to put the nice table saw to work, huh? Keep up the great effort... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Rob, Here we go,.....Auto-Cad & LT snobs... I would hatch it this way....No, do it in 3-D,... my Block is better than yours,....use the "X" template....NO, use the "Y".... print 8x10"....too small Bi%#h.... print the 20" stuff....Go away...I AM AN ARTIST.. Too much like work! TC Great Job! (Rob wants several layers; and I agree) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Heck, if it's FREE, then WHY NOT DEMAND the BEST?! Actually, the work that these guys can do with CAD stuff puts me to shame, and I certainly appreciate the amount of time and skill that goes into it. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 Thank you Rob,TC amd DM, Actually the plan here is to generate several drawings for each model and once they are complete I will create a multi-page Adobe PDF file that will contain scaled D or E size drawings. With this format it is possible to plot (yes on a plotter) the page(s) out full size and in color. The jpg's are just a convienient quick way to post. I have no details on the vertical cornwalls as yet. The more info the better. Are the dimensions so far correct? Did the basic dimensions remain the same for the entire production or were there changes model to model? Is the riser (base) 1 3/4" or 2" in height etc... Hatching is always an issue but with a little luck maybe we'll all get past it. After all, it is free. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 ---------------- On 1/27/2005 11:19:13 PM Jim E wrote: Are the dimensions so far correct? Did the basic dimensions remain the same for the entire production or were there changes model to model? Is the riser (base) 1 3/4" or 2" in height etc... ---------------- Ok now you made me feel guilty so i broke out the measuring tape and checked my 82 Cornwall I. The toe kick is exactly 2" tall on mine but is 23-1/2" wide. Depth is the same 14-1/2". Also, there does seem to be a slight variance in external dimensions where mine is 25-1/4" wide by 15-1/2" deep but the height is the same. The differences are small enough that I'm guessing it was probably a production modification due to a different plywood supplier or simply a variance between Decorator and hard wood versions. Being made in 1982, they are very late Cornwall I's The rest of the dimensions seem to work, but I didn't actually open mine up to check the inside. Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 OK...here are the latest changes. I've added the grill cover with cutouts. How thick is the grill cover? Is it plywood? I edited the hatching and colors as well. Everything look correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim E Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 I'm bumping this post as I sill need info on the grill material and verification on the general dimensions of the cabinet. C'mon guys, let's get it done. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Just brought home two Cornwalls VERTICAL from Florida- heck of a drive to indy. I'll be photographing and disassembling tomorrow, so will give full dimensions for what I think are aobut 1963 or so. Very old CWO with cane grills. It'll be interesting to see what's inside. GRills don't velcro on/off from outside. Must be screwed on from inside cabinet. SN are 4B48 and 4B49, interesting that my others 1975's are 6N1098 and 6N1099, will post Sunday, for info on the trip and speakers, check FL Corn thread in General Forum. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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