minn_male42 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 7:49:40 PM Allan Songer wrote: I was teasing Gary who has recently discoverd the joys of old mono LPs. I meant NO disrespect for 5.1! Just look at my later posts in the thread for crying our loud! Why don't you tell me about all the great 5.1 mixes derived from 1950's mono recordings? I have almost no experience with 5.1 or 7.1 other than what I have heard in friend's homes. I have heard/seen some concert DVDs that are GREAT. And one other thing--this thread was hijacking the entire 2-channel forum--it really should have been posted in the Home Theater Forum. Sorry you're bummed out over this--nobody was TRYING to piss you off, BELIEVE me! ---------------- i am not "pissed off".... just trying to enjoy a discussion about SACD..... i really have no interest at all in mono vinyl or the issues that are related to that subject... this thread DOES belong in this forum because the main part of the discussion was centered on MUSIC... the home theater forum discusses movies and reproducing the movie experience in your home - (BTW - concert DVD's are NOT multi-channel music!) the 2 channel forum might be better titled as the "MUSIC FORUM" SACD in all it's forms is a MUSIC format... it really has nothing to do with home theater - except that the convention of 5.1 is a shared speaker arrangement between home theater and multichannel SACD..... (although optimal speaker arrangement is different for SACD and home theater) perhaps if the posters who have "no experience" with multichannel music would refrain from posting in a thread entitled "Listened to SACD Multi-Channel" the discussion could be more productive for the members of this forum who are interested in SACD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Again, I am sorry for upsetting you. I will refrain from making any comments in any thread that has "SACD" or "Multi Channel" or "5.1" or "7.1" or "10.1" in the title. That way you can enter the thread knowing I haven't ruined it for you! I am curious about something--do you listen only to recently recorded music? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 Since I STARTED this thread, can I say that I have no objection whatsoever to the turn it has taken? I didn't even ask a question in my initial post! I was just sharing an experience. I like when a thread takes an unexpected turn, especially when the subject matter interests me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Thread hijacking is a proud tradition here. Some of the best threads end up going on for pages after the original subject has been deserted. Most of us can have a conversation without clear demarcations of subject. It's not your thread anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 8:23:40 PM minn_male42 wrote: ---------------- On 1/26/2005 7:49:40 PM Allan Songer wrote: I was teasing Gary who has recently discoverd the joys of old mono LPs. I meant NO disrespect for 5.1! Just look at my later posts in the thread for crying our loud! Why don't you tell me about all the great 5.1 mixes derived from 1950's mono recordings? I have almost no experience with 5.1 or 7.1 other than what I have heard in friend's homes. I have heard/seen some concert DVDs that are GREAT. And one other thing--this thread was hijacking the entire 2-channel forum--it really should have been posted in the Home Theater Forum. Sorry you're bummed out over this--nobody was TRYING to piss you off, BELIEVE me! ---------------- i am not "pissed off".... just trying to enjoy a discussion about SACD..... i really have no interest at all in mono vinyl or the issues that are related to that subject... this thread DOES belong in this forum because the main part of the discussion was centered on MUSIC... the home theater forum discusses movies and reproducing the movie experience in your home - (BTW - concert DVD's are NOT multi-channel music!) the 2 channel forum might be better titled as the "MUSIC FORUM" SACD in all it's forms is a MUSIC format... it really has nothing to do with home theater - except that the convention of 5.1 is a shared speaker arrangement between home theater and multichannel SACD..... (although optimal speaker arrangement is different for SACD and home theater) perhaps if the posters who have "no experience" with multichannel music would refrain from posting in a thread entitled "Listened to SACD Multi-Channel" the discussion could be more productive for the members of this forum who are interested in SACD ---------------- minn_male42, I beg your pardon but you are in error. Please see below: DVD's, Music and Movies Chat about DVD's Movies or Music here. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Klipsch Forum subjects menu, before you lecture others with regards to your own mistakes. Hope you find this helpful, Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 I DO appreciate all the helpful comments regarding my multi-channel system. After careful consideration, I've decided to remain focused on my 2-channel systems and will not invest any more time or money to enhance my poorly matched multi-channel speaker arrangement and crappy Home Theater receiver for musical purposes. You guys are the BEST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 8:33:35 PM Allan Songer wrote: Again, I am sorry for upsetting you. I will refrain from making any comments in any thread that has "SACD" or "Multi Channel" or "5.1" or "7.1" or "10.1" in the title. That way you can enter the thread knowing I haven't ruined it for you! I am curious about something--do you listen only to recently recorded music? Just wondering. ---------------- i listen to music that interests me... some of that is older music on vinyl - although none of my vinyl is mono.... i have recorded most of my vinyl recordings onto DAT to preserve my vinyl.... but for purchasing new recordings, i do not even consider buying vinyl.... new CD recordings as well as high quality SACD are my choice... it's really a shame that you are cutting yourself off from the all of the very high quality SACD recordings that are out there.... whether or not this media survives long-term, i have an adequate SACD player and some very excellent recordings that i can listen to and enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 8:43:09 PM analogman wrote: I beg your pardon but you are in error. Please see below: DVD's, Music and Movies Chat about DVD's Movies or Music here. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Klipsch Forum subjects menu, before you lecture others with regards to your own mistakes. Hope you find this helpful, Analogman ---------------- "DVD's Music and Movies" i guess that you really don't understand the difference between the lower resolution movie sound formats of Dolby Digital and DTS and the High Resolution surround sound formats of SACD and DVD-audio perhaps if you do a little more reading you can learn the differences and then come back to this discussion with some intelligent responses.... but then again - perhaps a discussion of digital formats is beyond your comprehension "analogman" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 9:02:36 PM minn_male42 wrote: ---------------- On 1/26/2005 8:33:35 PM Allan Songer wrote: Again, I am sorry for upsetting you. I will refrain from making any comments in any thread that has "SACD" or "Multi Channel" or "5.1" or "7.1" or "10.1" in the title. That way you can enter the thread knowing I haven't ruined it for you! I am curious about something--do you listen only to recently recorded music? Just wondering. ---------------- i listen to music that interests me... some of that is older music on vinyl - although none of my vinyl is mono.... i have recorded most of my vinyl recordings onto DAT to preserve my vinyl.... but for purchasing new recordings, i do not even consider buying vinyl.... new CD recordings as well as high quality SACD are my choice... it's really a shame that you are cutting yourself off from the all of the very high quality SACD recordings that are out there.... whether or not this media survives long-term, i have an adequate SACD player and some very excellent recordings that i can listen to and enjoy! ---------------- minn_male42, Thanks for sharing your format preferences and opinions on them here in 2-channel! The only problem is that now I feel so unclean, why I never realized what an LP supremist bigot I was. Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 The music that interests me is generally not available on SACD. I've checked as recently as 3 months ago and couldn't come up with 20 "new" titles that I would buy. Still not worth it for me now matter how great the "recordings" are. And I simply don't have a need for SACD copies of titles I already own on vinyl. I did warm my heart a bit to see some SACD mono titles availble from the vaults--at least I seem to remember some early Prestige stuff on one of the websites I visited. I am listening to a great "new" CD right now--The Benn Clatworthy Quartet "LIVE" on Mainstem records. It's only a so-so recording (drums way too forward for the most part--but it's Jim Paxson so it's OK!), but the music kicks ***. It's not available on SACD and never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 9:16:24 PM minn_male42 wrote: ---------------- On 1/26/2005 8:43:09 PM analogman wrote: I beg your pardon but you are in error. Please see below: DVD's, Music and Movies Chat about DVD's Movies or Music here. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Klipsch Forum subjects menu, before you lecture others with regards to your own mistakes. Hope you find this helpful, Analogman ---------------- "DVD's Music and Movies" i guess that you really don't understand the difference between the lower resolution movie sound formats of Dolby Digital and DTS and the High Resolution surround sound formats of SACD and DVD-audio perhaps if you do a little more reading you can learn the differences and then come back to this discussion with some intelligent responses.... but then again - perhaps a discussion of digital formats is beyond your comprehension "analogman" ---------------- You're probably correct. I was merely trying to be helpful as you obviously didn't know or weren't aware of, for whatever the reason, that you were mistaken. You said: this thread DOES belong in this forum because the main part of the discussion was centered on MUSIC... the home theater forum discusses movies and reproducing the movie experience in your home - (BTW - concert DVD's are NOT multi-channel music!) and all I did was attempt to direct you to the appropriate place to enjoy the your stated objective: the 2 channel forum might be better titled as the "MUSIC FORUM" I beg to differ as I feel "<2>Channel" DOES imply some degree of exclusivity and specificity DVD's, Music and Movies Chat about DVD's Movies or Music here. Enjoy the Music! Analogman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Bit of a strong reaction to thread highjacking - been going on for years - often by me. First time I have been pulled over for it. Well apologies to any who were offended - from now on I will try to start new threads (something I do rather a lot anyway - but there you go). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 Max, Please don't change the way you post or the way you hijack threads! We love you just the way you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Aw shucks thanks Gary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Maxg, I havn't listened to records for many years. Before selling my Empire turntable I put on a few records for a spin. The scratches and pops were bad, so I gave my collection to the guy that bought the turntable. I don't remember what records sound like other then what I described above. Are you saying that SACD's come close to the that sound? If so, then I understand why there are still die-hards like you out there. There are a couple of articles in the Sound & Vision magazine this month about SACD and DVD-A. The articles said that there is a new format in town, and that we may see SACD's and DVD-Audio go the way of the Dinosaur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Q-man, Tricky question to answer really. Do SACD's and DVDa's sound more like vinyl than CD did? Yes. Do they sound like vinyl? Not really no. At least not in my experience. The digital formats have a number of advantages over vinyl as a group. Most of these are well known and well documented so dont need repeating. In most technical respects (measurements) digital formats are better. The thing is that when you actually hear vinyl on, even a very moderate TT that HAS BEEN PROPERLY SETUP with a moderate cartridge and phono stage the results can be very surprizing. Lets put this another way. I am not the diehard vinyl fan you suppose me to be. I am worse. I am a new convert (relatively). I ditched vinyl in 1984 for CD - adjusted to the sound, got used to it and never listened to vinyl again until about 2000. At about that point SACD was coming on and I bought a player and 70 disks (lucky me - I love classical and it is well represented in SACD). It was better than the CD I had - not by much - a bit better - and not on all recordings. I put that down to the player more than anything - it was the Sony NS900 DVD/SACD combo. MY friend Tony bought into SACD at about the same time. We thought this was about as good as it gets without spending big money on either a high end SACD player or a high end CD player. As it happened I had 10 recrds I had kept since my days of youth and had a burning desire to listen to the Beetles Blue Album which I did not have on CD. Using my MaGyveresque brain I managed to cobble together something to play them and was very impressed with the result. Yes there was surface noise, and much restrained bass compared to what I was used to - but it was so musical - so real (as in so not artificial somehow - difficult to put into words) I was stunned. I called Tony. He came round - listened, wept and started kicking my furniture. He agreed with me - it was better than what we had build - either of us. You should have heard his language - he was furious - he had no vinyl and had just bought into SACD. 24 hours later we were the proud owners of a pair of Project RPM4 TT's project arm, project cartridge and project phono box for the princely sum of 465 euros each. Its been all downhill and expense since that day. The projects destroyed what we had sonically. Q-man - Analogue is a maddness and one you dont need. Do not go there. Your digital setup is probably brilliant anyway and mine was total dross I am sure. There are other ways to spend your money. Do NOT go out and buy a cheap TT just to see. There is no point - your digital is much better. I wish I had given away those damn Beetles albums.... BTW - it wasnt actually the Bettles that swang it. I had a Simon and Garfunkel record that was seemingly identical to the CD I had. The vinyl was just streaks ahead (against my poor drossy digital setup - not your magnificent one). All kidding and teasing aside I am fairly sure that the higher up the audio spectrum you get the smaller the differences are. I have heard really good CD players for big money that are absolutely fantastic sounding. I cannot imagine a vinyl rig would sound that much better if at all. You, if memory serves, have a totally insane surround sound system. You would need a similarly insane 2 channel vinyl rig to compete. Ultimately would it be better - no idea - might be, might no be - expensive experiment though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Max, I'm not about to go vinyl. I was just curious about your earlier analogy. My two sons were first impressed with the sound steering of this multi- channel format, then they noticed the big sonic improvement. I once told them that this sound is something like how records used to sound. After the younger one asked me what a record was I tried to explain the sonic difference to them and what analog sounds like. I just told them analog had some of the edge and harshness taken out of the CD sound. Kind of like the improvement you heard when I went to better drivers and horns. They understood that. I had to ask your opinion since you related the two formats. I was wondering if I was way off base or not. Like I said it's been a time. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 It's the mastering more than anything that makes the difference. If you play an LP, record it onto your hard drive through a quality sound card, and make a CDR of it, it will sound like the LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Gary, it good to hear you are finally checking out SAC on the full 45 channels. I'm of mixed minds about the SACD and DVD-A formats. I've got a great little HT setup with a Denon receiver, a Pioner 563a multi-layer and a timber matched KG 5 speakar system. I've got a couple of SACD's and a couple of DVD-A's (no telarcs-rats)and quite frankly I'm only moderatly impressed. It may be just what I'm used to but 2 channel sounds as good or better either through the above mentioned setup or 2 Channel SACD albeit thru a much better 2 channel setup. It's like anythiing with music, spend some time checking it out and then decide if you want to go the upgrade path. What you've got right now is more than you need to decide if it's worth pursuing. Minn, my man, I have enjoyed your posts and replies in this and many other threads. Fear not everybody wanders off topic all the time, but look at the info we just picked up on the differences between mono needles etc. Pretty interesting stuff to my mind, even if it is off topic. Analogue, don't sweat the details. I'm as guilty as most of us, I post all over the place and sometimes, hell a lot of times, it's in places not fitting the topic. Such is life. People who love music don't tend to be the types who are round pegs going into round holes. By the by, I'm a big proponent of DVD/Music/Entertainment and have a long running thread down there to to give people all over the board the opportunity to share their music. Gary is down there all the time. But I also post a lot of music threads here too. (see my recent thread about The Twins most of which were posted here in 2 Channel) By the way have I mentioned the words Marantz 8b in the lst 10 minutes-oops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 The best SACD recordings, even WITH good mix downs -- don't sound anything like vinyl spinning under a good moving coil. It's apples and oranges. It's best to simply choose the one that best caters to your individual tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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