Seismic_Pulse Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 I recently bought a pair of KG 1.5's and I was going to use them as rear surrounds. I am impressed with the sound from these little speakers and I was thinking about completing/matching my system with a KG line center or another that would match. Has anyone tried using two speakers for a center channel before? Would there be any problems with spitting the signal between two speakers? Anything else I should know? I realize I could set up a 6.1 system, one for center and one for rear but because of my room size and layout I think I will just stick with 5.1 for now. Opinions wanted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 ---------------- On 1/27/2005 10:42:59 PM Seismic_Pulse wrote: I recently bought a pair of KG 1.5's and I was going to use them as rear surrounds. I am impressed with the sound from these little speakers and I was thinking about completing/matching my system with a KG line center or another that would match. Has anyone tried using two speakers for a center channel before? Would there be any problems with spitting the signal between two speakers? Anything else I should know? I realize I could set up a 6.1 system, one for center and one for rear but because of my room size and layout I think I will just stick with 5.1 for now. Opinions wanted ---------------- you will find two issues imho basicaly 1 will be a reduction in power with your center, you will find that your center will draw more power and you will not hear them as clealry, also if you reciever is underpowering the two speakers that will sound worse than one at high volumes,and unless you wire the speakers in parrell you will be running the receiver at a 16 ohm load which would be bad for the reciever... it would run really hot, anyways i think that you are much better just using one speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Pulse forget about running two centers. It just does not work. I know people who have tried and after some serious listening, they heard anoying sonic annomolies from having two sources playing the same signal. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seismic_Pulse Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 Well CRAP! Thanks for the input guys... Now I don't know what to do. I don't think that one of these speakers will make me happy. Especially because I would be stepping down from my KLF-C7. I guess the only thing I can do besides scraping this idea is just try one and see what I think. I'm glad I posted this here first because I didn't put any thought into ohm load and I wouldn't want to damage my receiver. Thanks again and any other input would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 stick with what you got, the klfc7 is a great cenet channel! maybe some day down the road go to 7.1 or something of that effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seismic_Pulse Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 I guess for the time being that is what I will do. I understand that the C7 is a fairly good center channel and I do like it I just wanted to get something that would match the rest of my system sonically. I have also entertained the idea of picking up a pair or two of KLF-20's or KLF-30's and using my existing system for different rooms or selling it all together. I have seen quite a few KLF-20's and 30's for sale but for that kind of money I would rather get myself into a RF-7 system! I think that I have the same disease as most everyone here...The Fatal UPGRADE bug and it doesn't ever go away. I have only had my SVS 20-39PC+ for over a month and I'm already scheming how and when to upgrade. I was not only trying to match my system but I figured if I could get a descent center channel I could sell my C7 and my SVS and buy a PC CS Ultra or PB12+2! I really like my sub but I don't think I could ever get enough BASS! I'm pretty happy with my system overall but I figure if I can upgrade any part of it or the whole thing for almost no money out of pocket, why not? Anyway thanks for the input and I'll fart around with one of the 1.5's and see what I think...if nothing else I'll be able to find a spot for them somewhere in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 actually there is a woman here who is selling a pair of klf 30's that she says are mint, i bet you could get a steal on them check out the general questions forum, umm she lives in new england i believe and about the upgrade bug, you are not alone i have it as well as everyone else here, i am hoping to get a pair of heritage this year but you enver know how the cards will be played out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherkane Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hey Seismic, have you ever been able to hear a KG2.2v or 2.5v? They make for a great matching center from the KG line. Not quite as effcient as a KLFC7, but it matches very well sonically. I use my 2.2v between two fortes, and I am very happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherkane Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hey Seismic, have you ever been able to hear a KG2.2v or 2.5v? They make for a great matching center from the KG line. Not quite as effcient as a KLFC7, but it matches very well sonically. I use my 2.2v between two fortes, and I am very happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I have two centers and I do not have any anomolies or loss in power! However my configuration is different since I use separate amplifiers for each one, and only the A/V preamp output is "Y'd" out. I use a La Scala below my TV and an Academy on top and they work as one! I cannot differentiate between them they blend seamlessly. However, my brother in law uses two vertical Cornwalls as his center channel feeding off a single amplifier output. He does not have any issues either. If anything you would not loose power you would gain power since if they are wired in parallel your ohm load would drop a little bit. If you wired them in series you would have a little loss but that could easily be compensated for with the channel level control. As mentioned it would be easier to use a KG 2.2V or 2.5V since it would be the same as running a pair of KG 1.5's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 "forget about running two centers. It just does not work." Yup, two centers will comb filter with each other which gets rid of one of the advantages of having a hard center vs. a phantom center.... that being reducing comb filtering. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Not really sure what comb filtering is or how it impacts the sound but the setup is working well for me. This sounds like an opportunity for that little yellow button PWK wore. Whatever it is it's not audible to me. Perhaps I should sell the Academy then and make myself $550 richer since the critics don't think it works correctly. Don't knock it until you have personally tried it though. Just for grins I'll switch my amp over to three channel and run the La Scala with more power by itself and see what it sounds like. The whole logic behind me doing this in the first place is due to the height of my RPTV I have to lay the La Scala on its side which narrows my right to left dispersion pattern and the Academy compensates for it. If you think it does not sound good this way you need to hear it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 side by side Center speakers ..would not sound good.....as the sound would not sound like it is coming from the center of the screen yet the entire screen....and when they pan the sound to left or right...the separation of the centers to either Main....might not be enough to give you the good sound fiel d of noticing the sound moving across screen.... Over TV and under TV centers would probably not sound to bad...if aimed at listeners ears.... To want to have 2 centers...though...you have to have a larger RPTV...or one huge screen.... even movie theaters use a single CENTER stack of speakers.... So for me ...I cannot see any benefit... also...the Signifcant Other...may object to the look...heheheh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 i used to run two centers a long time ago, i did not notic any anomolies. My both recievers i have ever owned have had capablitily of running two center channels speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 "This sounds like an opportunity for that little yellow button PWK wore. " Not hardly. Play mono vocal material on your system in 2 channel mode and listen to how it sounds. Now turn off either your L or R speaker and play the same mono material again this time listening to just one speaker and positioning yourself so you are centered in front of it. Listen to how the sound changes compared to being centered between the L/R with both playing. The mono material over 2 speakers is going to sound more hollow or phasey and it will noticeably change in sound more if you move around... the single speaker playing the mono material will have more body.. it will literally sound more real and it will sound more consistant as your position changes. The difference is from the two speakers comb filtering with each other. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 Well thanks for the explanation by why in the world would I want to go through all that just to prove a point? They are both being fed the same signal and being powered off their own amplifier output and it certainly does not sound hollow or lacking. It is not noticeable the way it is currently configured and I never run less than 7.2 so it is a moot point for any source. I suppose I could suggest that your front array needs to be spaced out more so you can get some stereo separation from that front wall of speakers you have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtkinney Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 In theory two center channel speakers should not work due to the previously mentioned comb effects creating regions where the SPL doubles and cancels. In practice with normal listening material it's not so apparent. Unless you are listening to a constant frequency tone while you are moving around you will not notice the peaks and troughs of the comb effect. With a rapidly changing frequency source, ie. music or movies, the peaks and troughs are moving around too fast for most to notice, especially at higher frequencies with shorter wavelengths. Yes I have a pair of Heresy's on either side of my 50" RPTV for a center channel. My Yamaha receiver has no trouble driving them hooked in parallel. I just have to adjust the levels in the setup to balance with the fronts and rears. I have to pump them up anyway since I am using K-horns for fronts and Belle's or LaScalas for the rears. My wife is a Structural Dynamicist at NASA and specializes in acoustics testing. She can't tell a difference knowing what to listen for. She can also hear better than me anyway (47yo male). Seismic, if you have them sitting there, hook them up and see how it sounds. If you don't like it, disconnect one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 "Well thanks for the explanation by why in the world would I want to go through all that just to prove a point? " It would take you all of 5 minutes to do what I suggested so you can hear what comb filtering sounds like. The problem with discussions like this is many listeners don't know what comb filtering sounds like until it is pointed out to them. " They are both being fed the same signal...." That is the whole point. "It is not noticeable the way it is currently configured and I never run less than 7.2 so it is a moot point for any source." How does that make it a moot point? My above example would let you hear the effects of comb filtering between two speakers that are fed the same material compared against a single speaker reproducing that material. Which is the same case as your two center channels being fed the same material vs a single center speaker. " I suppose I could suggest that your front array needs to be spaced out more so you can get some stereo separation from that front wall of speakers you have there. " (LOL) My listening angle is roughly 50 degrees as is my viewing angle. What is your listening angle and how does it compare to your viewing angle? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 wiring in parrell will actually recude the power by half if you think about it, because now rather than doubling your ohm load you keep it constant which means that the power will be divided exactly by 2.... now if the speakers can still run efficiently off half the power, which if you speak on your brothers behalf, then that is ok and i'm sure it sounds fine, but if the speakers draw more power than the power being sent they will have a reduction in sound and not be nearly as clear, as for you using 2 amps is a goood way to go because you will not have a reduction in power, now if you just wire in sieries you will end up with a 16 ohm load which is a lot more than his reciever can handle combing effect is a real thing, here is a basic a non-speaker example of almost the same thing: a microwave has an a freq of 3.21 ghz or the frequency that will vibrate hydrogen and oxygen molecules to produce heat, (well that same frequency can damage your retnas and your eyes alomost immediatly if you get exposed to a powerful enough signal). So in order to eliminate this possibility they take 2 pieces of glasss and space them out 1/8 (that is what they use but any fractional whole number will work) of the frequency of 3.21 ghz, this will then cause the waves to go through the first piece of glass hit the second (bounce back creating standing waves) and cancel out the waves that are coming back and thus protecting your eyes and yourself from the radiation. Now this is a flawed comparision, i realize that, but i think that it gets the point of waves cancelling each other out. Also I am not sure if this is the best way to explain it but ohh well Now the combing effect of speakers works on the same principle, i will tell you that its possible happen, but wether you hear that or not is a whole different story, i personally don't believe that the human ear could hear the combing efffect of two center channels playing the same thing, but i guess its possible.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvincerob1 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I used to run two center channels and i heard no audible difference. I ran a Y splitter out of my receiver and into a 2 channel amp. I was very pleased with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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