maxg Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 7:42:53 AM Colin wrote: live music on acoustic instruements is the best sound on man made contraptions, I heard the gorgous Trios twqo years and while incredible, the Khorns come awfully close for a whole lot less money: February 2003 Uptown Horns The New York showcase For Avantgarde Acoustic Loudspeakers And Viva Amplifiers http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/archives/ ---------------- No disagreement - but we were talking about the absolute best. Yes - we are in the region of diminishing returns - mightily - but if you are talking about the absolute best in REproduction of music(as opposed production) then the Avantgardes are about as close as it is worth looking at. I have heard people say similar things about Wilson's biggie speaker - but they make the Avantgarde's look cheap!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 or else Edgar's mightly Titan bass horn http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue4/edgarinterview.htm if you can find the link somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Or try Edgars 25Hz horn loaded bass bin: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/291232.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I suggest you not ignore Brennan's brief statement - I wholeheartedly agree about the 100hz to 12khz regarding the best Altec. It is so good that it can become your new mantra in speakers. That said, a bunch of folks like to see both ends of that enhanced. While my ear says that the Khorn gives up a bit in the Altec sounds great range, I think that the Khorn is a better all around loudspeaker. Granted that much of this is on the lower end - I have heard folks modified mids and tweets that make me give unqualified support to the Khorn design. My own experience in putting together speakers from pieces also validates that opinion. If I had Khorns in play today I would be looking at various options for the compression drivers and horns if I was chasing my personal best solution. BTW - I have not mentioned Max's recommendation - he is right, but I am the type of person that can't justified the difference in taste between a $70 bottle of wine and a $500 bottle of wine. For those that are so compelled I suggest the Trio. For those looking for a loudspeaker that does a real decent Khorn sound that is reasonably priced (and addresses some of my mentioned Khorn weaknesses) I also recommend Dr. Edgars stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/15/2005 8:15:02 PM TBrennan wrote: Altec A5. From 100-12,000hz it's the best there is. My opinion ya understand. ---------------- A man's gotta have his priorities straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotbuck Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- ... I have heard 2A3 on my system and I like the mid but loose the lower end... ---------------- Greetings, What if you did a simple (and hopefully reversable) mod on your K-Horns to allow for bi-amping? Then you could get the magic mids from the 2A3 amp and perhaps feed some SS slam to the woofer? Over the years I've noticed the one *bad* thing about good equipment is that it teases you into approaching "reality". On mid-fi gear, you *know* you're listening to a recording; however, as you keep raising the bar and can suddenly perceive musicians "playing" just for you in your living room with really accurate timbre and "prat" (sounds like an insult used in Monty Python!) - you can often find yourself craving that extra 5% that will make things sound totally real. Unfortunately, like the Holy Grail (another Monty Python reference???), that extra 5% doesn't exist. So... What if, before spending any more money on audio nirvana, you spent a couple bucks on a "no-fi" system from Best Buy and lived with it for a month (sort of an alternative "reference" system). Then hook up your current system. I bet it'll knock your socks off all over again!!! Just a thought, and I hope it helps... Take care, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Nice idea Scott, Probably even cheaper just to deny yourself access to music for a week and come back fresh. Oh - and dont be so sure that extra 5% doesn't exist - just be sure that if it does it will cost more than the 95% that preceded it. Further, the higher the original 95% the greater the multiple that should be applied for the "final" 5%. Once the "final" 5% has been implemented the bad news is that there is another final 5% waiting for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Dylan, You mentioned some 2a3 PP's, but haven't found one that you liked. What have you listened to so far? I"d be interested to hear your take on their sound vs 2A3 SET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- So... What if, before spending any more money on audio nirvana, you spent a couple bucks on a "no-fi" system from Best Buy and lived with it for a month (sort of an alternative "reference" system). Then hook up your current system. I bet it'll knock your socks off all over again! ---------------- I can walk into my son's bedroom and listen to his "beater" system for 10 minutes and accomplish the same thing. You're right, it really makes one appreciate the finer thinks in life... like a half-way decent stereo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 All, I never said I do not like my Khorns. I like what I have very much to the extent that I am looking to purchase another pair of Khorns. I have however heard midrange from Altecs that is much better than the klipsch drivers so, thinking out loud the question is CAN I HAVE MY CAKE & EAT IT TO?? I not sure but I think this type of answer once started a revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Kind of late to this party but wanted to add my 2 cents. As I researched new horn product options last year I found a very interesting denominator among all the manufacturers. Bar none (including Avante Garde) they used the Klipschorn as their developmental benchmark. They all sought to match or, in their estimate, surpass the master. No doubt some probably do surpass the master...but at what cost, in dollars, size or appearance. Cain and Cain double big Bens purport to match the Khorns. Eight feet tall X 1.5 ft and 10k, they don't require corners. I heard the baby Bens. If you sit in the sweet spot they were good. Leave that spot and it's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Well right now I'm listening to The Cowboy Song by Thin Lizzy over a pair of Fostex FX 120s I got yesterday that I mounted to some cardboard boxes. Sounds like Heresys. I really got those boxes buzzin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Offer still stands to do your Heresy networks. I'll up the ante -- and pay for the parts and return shipping too. I don't want anything in return, not even a good word, but you're free to dog the work if you want. If you don't like what you hear, send them back and I'll put them back the way they were, and I'll cover shipping both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 BTW -- is it true that horns with long narrow throats have better off-axis response as frequency increases? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I too would say that Altec A-7 (and variants) is a good bet. The ONLY reason that I do not have a pair is that they are rectangular and HUGE. They give Khorns a run for the money. They are made for a longer "throw" than the Khorn (say 50 ft), and they have a larger footprint, and they do not fit into a corner, of course. They are a 2-way design. If you have the room, they are the cats meow. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- On 2/16/2005 11:59:21 AM DeanG wrote: BTW -- is it true that horns with long narrow throats have better off-axis response as frequency increases? ---------------- I believe that the narrow throat lends itself to "beaming" rather than a broader dispersion pattern as the frequency goes up, making it suitable for a long throw, more or less. The opposite of that, the "baby butt" style of high frequency horn for wide dispersion (a very wide and short throat). DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Dylan, That is a photo of one of my Klipschorns that John Warren put on his website and called it a super Klipschorn. After messing around with different networks, which did improve the sound, but not good enought. I started trying different drivers and horns. My Klipschorn makes the stock one sound like it has dirty socks stuffed down the throat of the mid. horn and tweeter. Your right to stop fooling around with networks on poor drivers and horns. The Klipschorn bass horn really comes alive when you replace the whole top end. I may have a replacement top with current drivers and horns one of these days. Then you won't have to go the vintage route the way I did. This way others could buy it or do it themselves. Still experimenting. There is also a better sounding bass horn, but it drops off fast under 45 to 50 Hz. You have to be into using a good subwoofer with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Q Man- That work is very impressive and seems like the way I am heading. For some reason horn loaded bass is one of a kind in a good way. To date what horn combination do you find works the best? Are you still sticking with the Super Klipschorn? I think the vintage horns you use give the whole system a great look along with great sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 If you do a search you should be able to find a few lengthily topics on this mod and a few other mods that led to this one. This one uses the Altec 290-16K 300Hz driver and the Altec 311-90 300Hz horn with the JBL 2404H tweeter and a custom network designed by John Warren. I sent him the driver and horn to measure and work with. These could be the speakers that I die with. I have 6 of these tops for my Klipschorns. I wouldn't have invested in six of these horns if I didn't like them, because they run $700.00 to $900.00 a pair. I used to post a lot on this Forum, but after being so satisfied with my speakers I found that I had nothing elce to say. I used to say that the University Classic Is a better sounding bass horn then the Klipschorn, so I'm going to see how far I can take it with a new top end. I choose the Klipschorn, because it's good to about 35Hz. Now I'm thinking that that doesn't matter since I use a subwoofer with it. This is also leading to a new top end for the Klipschorn. One that people will be able to do because I'm going to use current drivers and horns. The midrange horn will fit on top of the Classic, but it is too wide and deep for the Klipschorn. The same driver will work for both the Classic and Klipschorn. I may have to build the horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Yeah, but when you go away the rest of us learn less. If I could buy new tops that would accomodate different drivers and horns I would be game. I just don't relish hacking into Klipschorns I just spent $6000 on. They sound very good to me, and I have no problem leaving them as they are. However, a new and different project is definitely interesting -- maybe something for the basement to scare the kids away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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