Dylanl Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 And the answer can't be a Klipschorn. I really thought the Altec model 19 could come close to the Khorn but after a quick listen today with another forum member (KCM) I am re thinking the whole thing. I was just about to pull the trigger on a pair of 19s but now I am now baffled. Can anyone answer unbiasedly on any other horn speaker. Maybe JBL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Do you remember the difference the ALKs made in your Klipschorns? Kind of like night and day? In the other thread I tried to warn you -- the stock Altec network is full of 30 year NP ELECTROLYTICS. What you heard probably isn't anywhere near what they sounded like new. I'm also wondering what you are pushing your Klipschorns with. If it is with the Scott, then I think you need to quit buying speakers and upgrade to the VRD's or something comparable. You will eventually sell your Klipschorns and get on a horn "merry-go-round". Someday you will be able to tell your Grandchildren about the time you owned Klipschorns. They will look at you in awe, and then when you finish your story, they will look at you like you're an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Do the port mod on a couple La Scalas. Are you looking for rear surrounds? Why do you need bass when you already have Khorns? DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Dean, I love my Klipschorns believe me but I am not an idiot. I know what I like. Maybe I am just searching around for nirvana. I hear so much talk about how great this is and that is and I think if I could find better than my modified Khorns, WOW! Maybe the answer is NO, but I would dout it. I agree Scott is not the end in amps but I have heard 2A3 on my system and I like the mid but loose the lower end. Just not acceptable to me. I was looking for a good push-pull 2A3 but never found one yet that I really like. I have seen others that combine Altec mid horns with the Khorns bass bin maybe this is an option. I also listened to a pair of LaScallas with Altec mid horns and I have to admit it sounded very good. No more in your face. I know it is hard for all of you to be unbiased about Klipsch ( I feel the same way ) but I am new to audio and just wonder how far this addiction can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Altec A5. From 100-12,000hz it's the best there is. My opinion ya understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 D-man, I guess I am asking to hear from others who have been around the block with the horn quest. The question is: Am I already there? Am I at the pinnacle? Once again it is hard for long time Klipsch guys to even look elsewhere that is why I am kicking myself for even asking this here. What was I thinking?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Look at this if you dare: A SUPER KLIPSHORN http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/Page_5.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Dylanl, Dean is speaking from experience. I was away from the forum for almost a year and when I left he had RF-7's (after hating then loving Heresys). I come back and he has brand spankin new K-Horns. Always try to learn from other who have traveled the path and are kind enough to let you learn from their experience. As far as the horns, have you checked out Al's Tractrix (I think that is the spelling) midhorn that he preparring for production. It is based on an Edgar design and looks very promising. Check out Al's website. The really nice advantage to AL's replacements willl be that they are shorter than the stock squaker and can be aimed at your listening position if you modify the top bin. No more being chained to the spot 45 degrees from each speaker. My only concern is that if the new squaker is rotated in the top bin, the disbursement path of the mids may be interupted by a portion of the top bin (essentially a portion above and below the horn that is "flat" instead of letting the sound radiate in all directions). Al also upgraded his tweeters to Beyma CP-25's. There is a very interesting thread on Al's new product in Updates and Mods. Also links to some Edgar articles. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 lower than 30Hz? or do you actually want push at 80-100 Hz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Colin, 30Hz is fine with the least amount of fall off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCM Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Beep, beep-beep.......update on my newly acquired 19's..... First, a BIG thanks to Dylanl for helping me get the monster Altec's home! I've been on quite a learning curve myself the last few years.......replaced a 17 year old pair of DCM Time Windows with GR Research Paradox 3's. Big improvement, but sounded like speakers reproducing music. Then Magnepans, impressive but still sounded like speakers reproducing music. Then La Scala's with AL networks. Now these sound real ! Damped the horns, built some type A's with foil inductors and Sonicaps, two subwoofers and things are great. I couldn't leave well enough alone, though, so I tried some Altec 511B horns plopped on top. Whoa.....this is interesting..... If the horns alone can do this, what can a turnkey Altec speaker do ? I found a nice pair of 19's locally and just got them today. As Dylanl says, they were not too impressive initially. Very much "in your face". However, after he left I played with position (less toe in and farther apart) and the level controls on the speakers. WOW-WOW-WOW !!! Very impressive...... big sound, very detailed sound, subtle nuances and dynamic contrasts revealed, articulate, powerful bass. Right now I'm thinking these are right there with the best speakers I have heard, including four pairs of Klipschorns in various settings with a variety of gear. If Dean is right, and the crossovers are past their prime, I can only imagine how good they'll be....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Dylan, I wasn't calling you an idiot -- your Grandchildren were! I was just trying to say that for the home environment, you've got damn near as good as it gets. No speaker does it all! Heck, I'm using modified Heresys four feet away right for low level listening -- and the sound is breathtaking. You could go to some other speaker, but after a while you'll just become aware of it's shortcomings too. You could go into some serious Klipschorn mods, but I think first you should take them as far as you can by upgrading your gear. Regardless of what you do or end up with -- it's something you are going to have to do eventually anyways -- so mind as well do it now. The Klipschorn can be majestic and magical -- but you have to feed it Filet Mignon and Caviar. Follow me and I'll lead you into the promised land -- which is better than quicksand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 "Very impressive...... big sound, very detailed sound, subtle nuances and dynamic contrasts revealed, articulate, powerful bass." Ha! a perfect description of my system -- but I'm not listening to Altecs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCM Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 ---------------- -- but I'm not listening to Altecs! ---------------- Pity, that.......guess you'll have to make do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 The Klipschorns are still the absolute reference that all other pretenders to the throne must usurp. For example a recent review of the Loth-X Polaris Horn Loaded Loudspeaker by Eminent Audio stated... "...The range of sounds were such, it was difficult to imagine how these sounds normally associated with every day life and music were not being reproduced faithfully. There were still surprises that caught us off guard; the voices for instance, as they changed from interviewee to interviewer, contrasted so much in dynamics it seemed that many different personalities, colours and densities of body were before us. Background details seemed to saturate the atmosphere with infinite layering, which challenged the senses and placated the analytical mind without recourse to drama, or trauma. The speed of sound and attack of even the smallest of movements was astounding, and the presence was simply Klipschorn-like. Tonal colour took even the blandest Revox tuner derived pieces and transformed them into gentle watercolours. Nothing that we played could be presented dryly with these speakers." This review also made frequent favourable reference to the La Scalas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 dylan, since we mostly have klipsch we ae going to be a little biased. however, you need to find speaks that suit you, if you are sure that only horns will meet your needs (have you heard really good cone speakers?) then you shold audition a few altecs, you covered the 19 (though what you heard would be improved I suspect from crossover refreshening and perhaps having the drivers worked on)... now try to hear some VOTT setups (like the one mentioned above by tom b.)... I would also suggest you try to hear classic audio reproduction's speakers which use TAD components (http://www.classicaudiorepro.com/)... the avantegarde horn speakers are revered by some... JBL now has some super highend horn speakers that I am sure will sound great (if you have >$10k to spend... I think that the k-horns could beneift form better mid and treble drivers and horns as described by wooferboy mentioned above...you could buy some improved mid drivers and horns and tweeter drviers and horns and put toghet a great soudning system with the k-horn bass bin...lastly you could add a great subwoofer to the k-horn to flesh out the lower reaches (velodyne DD-18 is pefect for this). warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 The quickest path to nirvana is the AK-4 Upgrade Kit. Most other options cost as much or more, consume a lot of time, and present more potential frustration than one can imagine. Since most don't have an anchoic chamber, real time analyzer, and modeling programs to build the proper network for the system -- most anything you end up with is just going to present a different set of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 How much do you want to spend in replacing your KHorns? If money is no object I suggest the Avantegard Trio paired with their basshorn subwoofer and Avantgarde's own SS amp (1.1 watts in class A). I have never heard the above setup but someone I rate very highly has - and reckons it is the best sound ever produced by man made contraption. How much better than your Khorns? Only the individual listener can answer that question - for some not at all or worse, for others night and day. Plan on something less than $55,000 all in, but not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 live music on acoustic instruements is the best sound on man made contraptions, I heard the gorgous Trios twqo years and while incredible, the Khorns come awfully close for a whole lot less money: February 2003 Uptown Horns The New York showcase For Avantgarde Acoustic Loudspeakers And Viva Amplifiers http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/archives/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 ---------------- The quickest path to nirvana is the AK-4 Upgrade Kit. ---------------- I agree with Dean on the AK-4 upgrade. I'm not clear on your dissatisfaction with your K-horns, but, for me, the AK-4 switch resulted in a definitely smoother, better frequency response and phasing integration between the drivers, from the upper reaches right down to the bottom of the range. Moreover, everyone who has the new AK-4 horns seems to really, really like them. And, electronics are big for Klipsch and the root of dissatisfaction for some. Can you try out a Blueberry or Peach and sign up for Mark Deneen's pCAT roadshow? From experience, I believe Class A tube amps would have a lot to offer. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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