wyattearp Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Hello All, I usually post on the HT thread since that's what I'm trying to assemble, but thought I'd ask here. I read the basic sub question thread, but was a little overwhelmed. Just purshased my first avr, a Pioneer VSX 1014, to power my KLF 20s and the used KLF-C7 I found here(thanks redtop). I am looking for a sub for mostly home theater, but will be giving 5.1 music a chance. My apologies to the 2-channel forum. It seems all agree on the ...Dayton Titanic? Does the enclosure come with that or is it extra? Other than aesthetics, what are the benefits of building your own enclosure? I have a large living room that adjoins/is the dining room, with a partition seperating the two. Also a vaulted ceiling. Total area is about 21ft by 22ft, with the ceiling going from 8ft to about 11ft at the peak. There is a hallway going off one side in an "L" shape to the sleeping area (3). I guess this is called a "bass trap." I have also seen mention here of SVS subs. As far as cost, maybe in the $800 range, w/ a max of $1000. If I could find something that would work for $500, that would be great. Still gotta buy surrounds. I thank you in advance for your responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Dayton Titanic MkIII all the way. Here's a link to my review of it: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=59175 The 15" version (due to the better amp and the high Xmax driver I highly recommend the 15 over the smaller ones) is $688 shipped, which includes the enclosure, the driver, the amp, and the acoustic foam. I also highly recommend the Outlaw ICBM-1, which is a highly adjustible 6.1 channel external crossover ($200 B-stock, $250 used). See my review here: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=56794 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyattearp Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks Doc. Will investigate. I guess that should be "subwhopper." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 i highly recommend that kit. i got the smallest one though(10"). its VERY well built. musical and NOT boomy at all. scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Comparing price versus 20Hz output for 18 subwoofers, puts the ACI Titan near the top of the list. Only DIY kits, used subwoofers and the big SVS 20-39 tubes do better. Subwoofer output at 25Hz is more noticeable in movies and music. Ranking 41 subwoofers by their 25Hz output alone, the Titan is middle of the pack. Larger, more expensive old dogs in this survey top it: Ravel Ultima Sub 30, SVS B-4, Legacy Audio Deep impact, SVS 20-39, Dayton Titanic III 15" kit, Velodyne FSR15, Mission 700as, BW ASW1000, HSU TN25, JBL D112 and the Sunfire Jr. Comparing price at the 25Hz level for 18 subwoofers, the Titan is at the top. Only DIY kits, used subwoofers, the SVS 20-39, Velodyne CHT-15, Sunfire Jr. and M&K V76do better. Lower cost models, with less output, also do better: Atlantic Tech T70.1PBM, PSB Subsonic 5i and JBL S120PII. Modest performers are the most economical values in subwoofers. They bang the bass drum for the least bucks. Look at the EnjoyTheMusic.com review of the PSB SubSonic 5i, for example. The 5i lists at $529, the low end of the subwoofer scale, has only 87dB output at 25Hz, yet is one of the best price/performance values in this survey. The Titan is louder and deeper in my listening room. With its gorgeous looks, the Titan excels in this price range. I cant think of a better looking subwoofer that sounds this good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I think only 2 guys on the forum use the dayton titanic...so i wouldn't say it's all the rave with everyone. If I were to go that route, I personally would purchase the titanic driver seperate and then build my own ported enclosure (the kit they sell is a small sealed design). That driver can get you some good solid output down to 20Hz in a better cabinet, though people of have been saying the sealed design sounds pretty good too. There is also http://www.adireaudio.com if you're interested in the DIY route. (The tempest is only $150). Adire audio has links to a special version of LSP Cad which is a driver modeling program: http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/FreeSoftwarePageFrameText.htm. For other drivers, you can use the simpler and free WinISD: http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro. If you hunt around a bit, I'm sure you will find suggested plans for any driver buy as well. There's a lot involved in building your own cabinet so unless you're ready to roll up your sleeves, you might wanna stick to a manufactured design. SVS seems to be the popular approach if you're looking at spending less than $1000. In which case, the suggestions you've been getting have been pretty good. It's a bummer that klipsch doesn't provide an awesome < $1000 sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 If you don't take Dr. Who's advice (the first, including cabinet) - good call. The second would be to look for a demo or a used Klipsch, they are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 ---------------- On 2/23/2005 12:02:13 PM DrWho wrote: There's a lot involved in building your own cabinet so unless you're ready to roll up your sleeves, you might wanna stick to a manufactured design. SVS seems to be the popular approach if you're looking at spending less than $1000. ---------------- I agree, DIY isn't actually about saving money (unless your time isn't worth anything) but more about customizing your sub's tradeoffs to what you want. With a budget of 500$ to 1000$ I would also look at some of the SVS subs, box (PB12-ISD/2) or tube. That said, my last two subs have been DIY... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 DrWho, actually there are a few people on this forum that own one. meuge, scp53(me), sosa, rayok275, and a couple others i think. just had to point that out. scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 ---------------- On 2/23/2005 3:55:39 PM formica wrote: ---------------- DIY isn't actually about saving money (unless your time isn't worth anything) but more about customizing your sub's tradeoffs to what you want. src='http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/2.gif'] Rob ---------------- Also agreed. And, unless you are a professional woodworker, it's not going to come out perfectly seamless down to the last millimeter as a professionally made sub will. I like to do things myself, but that's the biggest reason. I "like" to. I get more satisfaction out of the build than I do the final product. If I'm only going to save a few hundred bucks then I'll leave it to the pro's and sit back with a glass of iced tea. The titanics aren't really DIY's. No cutting, routing, or anything. It's like a model with the parts ready to glue together. They're good for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 ---------------- On 2/23/2005 6:14:05 PM Scp53 wrote: DrWho, actually there are a few people on this forum that own one. meuge, scp53(me), sosa, rayok275, and a couple others i think. just had to point that out. scp53 ---------------- Well fine, I only remember two of y'all then btw, I would love to see some in room frequency reponses of your guys' setups. The only graphs I can find are these ones: http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/295-420vented.pdf and http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/295-420sealed.pdf. (ported= -6dB at 20Hz and sealed= -12dB at 20Hz with max SPL for both around 115dB). btw, you can purchase the MKIII as a kit or as a single driver by itself. (look under speaker building to find the link to subwoofer kits). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v3spitfire Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Colin, you mention a survey of 41 subs, do you have the link to this survey. I'de like to see it. I have the Legacy Audio Deep Impact and can vouch for its authority and more important its ability to blend in well with music. I'de like to see this survey. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 If you are going for the max, one point would be the consideration of the vaulted ceilings. EDIT: Reflections - highs and lows. END EDIT But, you could run your sub "near field," close to listening point - whether it is the sweet spot or your preference. Unless you plan on large parties filling the room, then one would worry about whole room graphs. There's technical, purist and listener. Then there are times when it is advisable to save more so you can obtain a better sub. You have to determine how much time is spent on music vs movies, volume level wished and whether you want to wrangle every last hz. Try them and see what you are happiest with. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 the charts are great - just what you need, shows the vented Dayton capable of the depth you need to match full range speakers and has the output necessary to keep up, the filters might not be enough to slope the reponse steeply enough, if the slope is too shallow, the mid-bass from the sub will muddy the mid and upper bass from the towers- absolutely go for the max - gunshots with powerful sub are wonderful! besides after you assemble the kit, i am sure you could sell for what you have got into (minus labor), so what do you have to lose (think I will order one too! don't remeber article, but a lot of tweaking audiophiles have NOT yet adopted multi-channel audio (not sure about video though), so two-channels input are still more flexible- no survey, just the numbers from their site and the ones I could find from Tom Nousine measured responses, listed somewhere here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 ---------------- On 2/24/2005 10:15:27 AM Colin wrote: no survey, just the numbers from their site and the ones I could find from Tom Nousine measured responses, listed somewhere here... ---------------- I think you are refering to the results compiled in fabulousfrankie's Updated NOUSAINE subwoofer data list. I'm having a problem with the link right now... but it was up and running a couple of weeks ago. ---------------- from the PartsExpress web site: --Box Parameters-- --External Dimensions-- A = 23 in B = 23 in C = 23 in --Vent Parts-- 1 Duct: outside diameter (e) = 6.25 in, inside diameter (g) = 6 in, length (h) = 33.46 in ---------------- Chimney anyone? Perhaps a rectangular box or a wrapping slot port around the inside would look better than having the port stick out about 16". BTW, the PE Titanic 15 and AE Stryke AV15 are pretty good balanced drivers good excursion, middle of the road efficiency, requiring mid-sized boxes. AscentAudio is a new company to look out for offering quite a few inderesting drivers... while Adire have consistantly offered capable DIY sub drivers. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 There is no such thing as a beginner subwoofer It would be like 'beginner antibiotics' - anything less than the full dose is bad for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scp53 Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Colin, if you do get one, get the 12" or 15" kit. the 10 has too small of an amp. actually the 12 is slightly under powered too. scp53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyattearp Posted February 25, 2005 Author Share Posted February 25, 2005 Earp here. Thanks for all the responses. Keep 'em coming. In response to the last post, since my listening room is fairly large, I will be looking at the 15 inch. Anybody near eastern NC or southern Va that has one? Would like to hear one. Also, looking at the SVS subs, but which model? Leaning towards the PCplus maybe. Would like to hear this speaker also. These are only sold online, correct? I guess used also. Saw they also have B-stock. Tanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyattearp Posted February 28, 2005 Author Share Posted February 28, 2005 Does anyone have the Velodyne 12" DPS-12 sub? My local Circuit City advertises this speak. Of course, they probably won't have it in stock, but "we have THIS model that is much better(meaning $$$)..." They also always seem to be in a constant state of "upgrading" their listening room so that anything you want to hear is incapable of being hooked up to anything worth listening to. xc#!&**#%@!.. What to do. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Wyatt, first walk out of Circuit City unless you want any potential warranty problems taken care of by that pimply-faced nose-picking high school kid behind the counter who is earning minimum wage and knows NOTHING about the equipment, much less customer service. Second, trust any advice the fellas here can give you. Sorry I don't know about Velodyne, but go to SEARCH in upper right corner, type it in and yuo're sure to find some reviews. Good listening, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.