MattG Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 I have been researching receivers and I am in the $1000 range (give or take $200) and I have found three choices I am looking at; Denon 2802, Denon 3802, Onkyo TX-DS787. I would like to say (after reading other posts) that I DO plan on auditioning my receiver but because I live a couple of hours from the nearest dealer, and my wife does not like to hang out in electronic stores all day on our trips out of town, I was hoping to have some of the valueable input you guys have to offer. Now, time to weigh them out. First off, only one is THX certified (THX Select), the Onkyo TX-DS696. Should this certification hold any weight in my decision? Second, the Onkyo receiver has 6.1 ouput, but so does the $200 less Denon 2802. The 3802 has 7.1, but is that worth $400 over the 2802? Third, the Onkyo does not have Pro Logic II, while the Denons do. I guess what I really want to know is if Denon is a better quality receiver than Onkyo? And is the THX certification worth giving up the Pro Logic II? (I have a lot of VHS tapes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Have never really understood why 7.1 . perhaps for second rear speaker. Although my Outlaw 1050 ( a fantastic receiver now at only $499. from www.outlawaudio.com) set to 4 ohms drives extra speakers. There is not a lot of 6.1 material available, although the Outlaw processor finds a fair degree of rear channel stuff on 5.1. THX is a set of standards (now THX ultra and THX select) which the manufacturer must pay a fee to use if they qualify. My understanding is that the excellent (for movies) Klipsch THX system I have was discontinued because the added cost for THX certification resulted in it being overpriced. Dolby Pro-Logic II, however, might determine your choice since you have a lot of VHS tapes. I understand that it produces great surround effects out of even 2 channel material and makes old pro-logic tracks into full surround. If you audition it I would love to hear your opinion (or anyone elses for that matter). I have a good deal of old VHS tapes also. Unfortunately, as excellent as they are, my Outlaws dont have this new feature. Anyone know of any add on device? HT-1 (music oriented) Klipschorns w/ ALK crossover upgrades 4 Klipsch LaScalas (surround & rears) Heresy components in custom cabinet /monitor stand (center) Panasonic 32 Monitor W/ component video input 3 Sony CX400 CD changers Sony CX-200 CD Changer MSB Technology Digital Director w/ jitter reduction Nirvis DXS digital controller (auto selection of whatever changer is playing) Nirvis Slink-e computer interface (downloads cd info, programs & controls changers). Nirvis CDJ (CD Jukebox Software) Monster 5000 Power Center Sony Viao Laptop Computer Sony S530D DVD Player Sony 798HF VCR Sony XA1ES CD player Sherwood HX-PRO dual cassette deck Dynaco PAS4 stereo preamp W/ Tesla Tube upgrades (also outputs to HT2) Technics SL3300 DD Turntable w/ Shure cartridges Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver Perpetual Technologies P1A Digital Correction Engine (jitter reduction, 16 to 24 bit conversion, future speaker frequency correction, and room acoustic correction ) Perpetual Technologies P3A DAC ( plus 44.1k to 96k CD upsampling) Klipsch KSW-15 sub (for DVD LFEs ) Klipsch LF-10 sub Phillips Pronto TS2000 Programmable Remote Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal X10 computerized lighting controls Radio Shack Wireless Remote Control Extender Onix, MSB, Monster.AR, RS Gold Cables Monster Bi-wire speaker cable (Khorns) HT#2 (movie oriented) 4 Klipsch KT-LCR THX Speakers 4 Klipsch RS-3s (side & rear surround) 2 Klipsch KT-DS THX Surrounds 10 Linaem Tweeters Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver/Preamp Sony X111 ES CD Player Sony 775HF VCR Sony STR-G3 (supplemental amplification for extra speakers) Monster 3000 Power Center Toshiba 61 High Definition TV Sony NS700 Progressive Scan DVD Toshiba 4205 DVD/ CD Changer Klipsch SW-12II Sub Klipsch LF-10 sub Sony AV2100 remote Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal X10 Computerized Lighting Vibrapods (vibration isolation) RS Gold, AR & Monster cables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattG Posted August 27, 2001 Author Share Posted August 27, 2001 Hey Soundog, How do you like your RS-3's. I am considering using the RF-3, RS-3, RC-3, and SVS sub. I appreciate your input above. I do want to enhance my VHS, but I am still wanting to know if anyone has experience with Onkyo? They also have models with Pro Logic II, but those models do not have 6.1. I have read many posts about the superiority of Denon, which I am leaning toward, but I still have this "What about Onkyo?" lingering in my mind. This message has been edited by MattG on 08-27-2001 at 08:50 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Matt- I also am looking at receivers. Denon is being sold at Wal-Mart, (online only). The 2802 is about 629.00. I like it over the Onkyo in design, and performance. They retail for over 800 in stero stores. Let me know what you decide. Bill ------------------ wh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 quote: Originally posted by wm12324: Matt- I also am looking at receivers. Denon is being sold at Wal-Mart, (online only). The 2802 is about 629.00. I like it over the Onkyo in design, and performance. They retail for over 800 in stero stores. Let me know what you decide. Bill Also Crutchfield is now selling Denon, in case you didn't want to drive. They are a reliable dealer. ------------------ wh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuHorvath Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Since we had someone chime in for the Outlaw I might also throw the Marantz 7200 into the mix. It has pretty much all the same features (Pro Logic 2, etc.)as the 3802 but is 6 powered channels vs. 7 for the Denon. I'm not sure how important it is to you to have 7 channels since there isn't anything using that many and I'm not really sure if there are plans for it in the near future. If music is important to you take a look at the Marantz model because that is where I feel it excels (just my opinion, but it seems a lot of people agree that paired with Klipsch speakers the Marantz models make for very good sound, particualry in audio, but in HT as well). It came down to the 7200 and the 3802 for me and I decided to go with the 7200 because I honestly liked it better and it saved me over $200+. Since you are pretty far away from a dealer it might be very hard to hear these receivers directly against one another. In my opinion THX is not nearly as important a feature (makrketing hype?) as Prologic 2 and since you have all of those VHS tapes.....Lets just say that the Pro Logic 2 receivers would work quite nicely for you. IF (and that's a big if!) you can get half a day away from your wife, go to the dealer with your favorite music and DVD movies. Your ears are the only one's that can decide what sounds good to you. Hope this was some help to you. Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted August 27, 2001 Share Posted August 27, 2001 Matt - The RS-3s work great with my THX system ...they are a great match .... all of it works very well with movies ... I prefer the exceptional clarity of my K-horns for music, although sometimes I like to listen to pop music in the DSP modes on my THX system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattG Posted August 27, 2001 Author Share Posted August 27, 2001 Hey Guys, Thanks for the info. I had no idea that Walmart sold Denons and my latest Crutchfeild does not contain Denons either (that is where I got my Onkyo info). I will have to look into the Marantz 7200. Again, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbngaa Posted August 30, 2001 Share Posted August 30, 2001 well, as an onkyo supporter, i thought i might throw in my 2 cents. i have a 575x that is about a year old and it has performed very well in that time. the entire onkyo line seems to be fairly reasonable cost-wise and feature laden as well. i agree with the earlier posts, however, that DP II would be a better choice than any type of thx certification. from what i hear, dp2 is quite nice. that being said, i am at the moment considering the denon 4802 as my new receiver. so, i'm a traitor to my own review. but onkyo is still a good product. check them both out. david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDunno Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 They are really selling Denons at walmart??? omg... i cant seem to find them on the walmart.com website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
force95 Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 I have had the Onkyo TX-DS797 since December and am very satisfied with it. It is 6.1 ready and THX certified and has pro logic II. Also the remote is very user friendly. I got it for $800 which included shipping from J&R music world. It is hooked up to KLF-30's, KLF-C7, some hopefully soon to be replaced JBL surrounds and a JBL 4638. Benny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCos Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 i just ordered 3802 for $695 from reliableaudiovideo.com. dont think its authorized dealer, but everything came well packaged and the service was great. The reciever sounds great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 There is no 7.1 format, belongs to Spielberg, THX. It seems 6.1 is current,even old classics like Ben Hur and The Ten Commandments have been re-released in 6.1, most action movies are now 6.1. I have tried a multitude of sound fields\stages and actually run in 5.1. Dolby Prologic II is more intended for "VHS" not DVD use. Marantz smokes them both try the SR6200-7200, Denon or Onkyo don't even compete. The first Receiver to compete with seperates...OH YEAH Marantz covers the highs, mids, and bottom end, neither Denon or Onkyo can cover the full sound stage.,BRIGHT. Only the facts from listening to them Klipschorns(f) Klipsch La Scala's® Klipsch Hersey II's(boxed, 7.1) Klipsch KLF-C7© Velodyne FSR-18(sub) Monster HTPS 7000 power centre TEAC A4300 Reel to Reel Pioneer GR-777 EQ Musical Fidelity XLPS Tube Phono Pre-amp Marantz 6200 turntable(76) Marantz Reference SR18EX A\V Receiver Marantz Reference DVD DV-12S1 3-Marantz MA700 mono block amps(f&c) Marantz DR6000 CD recorder(single tray) Marantz VM5100 S-VHS hifi vcr Marantz SD57 casette tape(single tray) Toshiba 34HF81C Speaker cable is Kimber Cable 8TC(digital coaxial for dvd).Monster M1000 interconnects all around with SWHT 350i sub cable. Also, PS Audio mini lab power cords Marantz is a serious competitor in the HT marketplace! This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 09-01-2002 at 10:05 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 sounddog, if one likes multi-channel music and has the proper room for setup, the 7-channel stereo is quite nice. Also, with the Denon, you can use either one or two surround back speakers. Again, some rooms may benefit from the additional back speaker. Also, the 'Widescreen' mode plays all sources in 7.1 . boomer, wonder if the "Bright" you experienced had any correlation to the speakers used? To my ears, all the speakers in your sig sound 'bright'. JMO Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiaboloco Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 I'll throw my hat in the ring for the 3802. I had a 2802 for about two weeks but traded up... There is no discernable sound difference between the two, sound-wise, till you get to the neighbor-angering volume levels. I didn't go to the 3802 for the extra channel, actually, and in fact I wish it weren't there. I presently have it deactivated and run a single rear-center channel. I bought it for the extra power and the deeper power reserves that come with it. If you are running Klipsch, you don't NEED all that power, not by a long shot, but at least you know it's there if you want to annoy those neighbors I mentioned. Whatever you get, don't buy a new HT unit in that price range wihtout PLII. It's not just for VHS tapes, it's for regular TV as well... Assuming you don't have digital cable with DD signals, as I don't... But I, too, have plenty of VHS tapes that do in fact sound discernably better than they did with my old PL receiver (also a Denon). Denon makes great gear, and I recommend them highly. My dozen year-old CD player is still running strong, as was my old receiver until it was retired for better technology. Having said all this, Onkyo makes great equipment, too. Basically you can't go wrong as long as you go for the PLII thing. ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Keith, the speakers used were the Monitor Audio Silver 9i's and Monsoon FPF1000's as an alternative later. Quality mid range speakers IMO. The Receivers were run in strictly 2 channel mode. The track was of a live accoustical nature, a concert in a bar, in Seattle Washington, by the band Heart, The Road Home. The Receivers, Denon 3802, Marantz SR7200, Onkyo 797. Marantz floored em, covered the "whole" sound stage, highs, mids, lows. To add, the first receiver to compete with seperates on a musical note This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 09-02-2002 at 06:57 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiaboloco Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 I listened to Marantz, H/K, Onkyo, Sony, Kenwood, and others before I settled on the 3802... And quite simply, they all sounded great. With all due respect to the obviously biased boomer posting on here, they are almost indiscernable from each other IMHO. You can't go wrong with choosing any of the competing units, it all comes down to features, power, and aesthetics. Far be it from me to tell anyone that my 3802 is "better" than what they chose... I respect anyone's choices as being a fine one in this price range. You can't go wrong with quality equipment... After all, we're not talking about 200-dollar receivers here. I tip my hat to you if you are willing to buy a "real" receiver to begin with, as the uninformed think that a $250 receiver is just as good as a thousand-dollar DTS receiver, because they have "just the same amount of power". ------------------ -Me fail English? That's unpossible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandern Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 I have experience with both. I own the Denon 2802, my brother owns the Onkyo 777. Yes, both are great receivers and you will love them both. I like mine more than his because of my pro logic 2, very nice, exspecially for you if you have lots of VHS tapes. The THX certification is cool to have and bost about, but it doesn't really give you anything, and there isn't many movies out there done in THX. In choosing the 3802, or 2802, thats your choice, you pay for what you get, depends if you want the better remote, and 7.1, if you even use it. Now Onkyo has the 797 out, which I believe does have the prologic 2. I would consider that before the 787. Its up to you , the 787 is nice but to me the prologic 2 is a must so your still in the debate between the 2802, 3802, and 797. ------------------ Back for another, year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 Just jerkin' your chain boomer! Ever done any critical listinin' to Sonus Faber? Keith oops! mispelle. This message has been edited by talktoKeith on 09-05-2002 at 11:08 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty46 Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 You mean the 3802 has a better remote than the 2802? I think the remote is aweful on the 3802, how could it possibly be worse on the 2802? If you get the 3802, I would get it more for the fact that it has more power than it has a better remote. Marantz is supposed to very good as well as HK. I would stay away from the regular Sony stuff and I don't know enought about Onkyo or Kenwood. ------------------ Mains: KLF 10's Center: RC-3 (I know--doesn't match mains) Surrounds: Quintets Receiver: Denon 3802 DVD: Denon DVD-900 TV: Sony 36XBR400 VCR: Mitsubishi HS-U48 LaserDisc: Pioneer D605 MIT T2 and T3cables throughout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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