Things to know about the LaScala?

[M.H]

Hello all.

I have a question for all LaScala owners..

I own a pair of RF-3's now but i want to upgrade the speaker..

The LaScala impressed me very much when i had the change to listen to it some time ago..

It was a short time i heard them (15 min) but the impression i had was oudstanding..

So now i am thinking of buying these baby's..

But before i go for a soundsesion i want to ask the LaScala owners some questions..

Are there any bad points in the LaScala sound??

I heard some people say that the bass is a bit pore??

I know that the bass is better detailed as the RF-3,but is it less then the RF-3??

And are there any other things i must know about this speaker??

Maybe some things i must pay atention to it when i have a soundsesion..

Thx for the help

Greetings

[soundog]

While the LaScalas only go down to 45 Hz they do it cleaner than any speaker I know other than their big brother, the Klipschorn which goes down to 35. The RF-3 goes to 37Hz but nowhere as cleanly as either of the Heritage speakers. Listen to them all if you can with a record with good clean low bass. But also listen to the highs and midrange and compare. Generally the Heritage speakers are very dynamic - fast and therefore distinct - you will find it easier to distinguish between individual instruments. Overall they will sound very lifelike. Just remember the RF-3s are $800 a pair while the LaScalas are nearly $3000 and the Klipschorns nearly $6000; although both are available used on ebay for a lot less.

HT-1 Klipsch Heritage System (music oriented)

Klipschorns w/ ALK crossover upgrades

4 Klipsch LaScalas (surround & rears)

Heresy components in custom cabinet /monitor stand (center)

Panasonic 32 Monitor W/ component video input

3 Sony CX400 CD changers

Sony CX-200 CD Changer

MSB Technology Digital Director w/ jitter reduction

Nirvis DXS digital controller (auto selection of whatever changer is playing)

Nirvis Slink-e computer interface

Nirvis jukebox software (downloads net cd info, album covers& lyrics- programs & controls changers searchable for songs, artists, albums).

Nirvis CDJ (CD Jukebox Software)

Monster 5000 Power Center

Sony Viao Laptop Computer

Sony S530D DVD Player

Sony 798HF VCR

Sony XA1ES CD player

Sherwood HX-PRO dual cassette deck

Dynaco PAS4 stereo preamp W/ Tesla Tube upgrades (also outputs to HT2)

Technics SL3300 DD Turntable w/ Shure cartridges

Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver (Dynaco inputs directly to amp section)

Perpetual Technologies P1A Digital Correction Engine (jitter reduction, 16 to 24 bit conversion, future speaker frequency correction, and room acoustic correction )

Perpetual Technologies P3A DAC ( plus 44.1k to 96k CD upsampling)

Klipsch KSW-15 sub (for DVD LFEs )

Klipsch LF-10 sub

Phillips Pronto TS2000 Programmable Remote

Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal

X10 computerized lighting controls

Radio Shack Wireless Remote Control Extender

Cables: Onix , MSB, Monster, AR., Iced Purple, RS Gold

Monster Bi-wire speaker cables.(Khorns)

HT#2 Klipsch THX System (movie oriented)

4 Klipsch KT-LCR THX Speakers

4 Klipsch RS-3s (side & rear surround)

2 Klipsch KT-DS THX Surrounds

10 Linaem Tweeters

Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver (Dynaco inputs directly to amp section)

Monster 3000 Power Center

Sony X111 ES CD Player

Sony 775HF VCR

Sony STR-G3 (supplemental amplification for extra speakers)

Toshiba 61 High Definition TV

Sony NS700 Progressive Scan DVD

Toshiba 4205 DVD/ CD Changer

Klipsch SW-12II Sub

Klipsch LF-10 sub

Sony AV2100 remote

Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal

X10 Computerized Lighting

Vibrapods (vibration isolation)

RS Gold , Monster, Iced Purple, AR Cables

[M.H]

Thx for the reply..

I had a pair of Fortes for a try out,and compare to the RF-3 i think the RF-3 has a more crisp/clean sound then the Fortes..

I really liked the detail and lifelike sound in the Forte..

Also the bass was better detailed..

But in mine opinion sounds the FR-3 cleaner..

That was the reason i sticked to the RF (my girlfriend preferd that clean sound).

Could this be because of the titanium tweeter in the RF?..

What i am wondering now is:

Has the LaScala the same "problem".

Is the RF also cleaner in his sound then the LaScala..

Although the LaScala is better detailed then the RF.

I hope not because that will mean my girlfriend will dislike the LaScala

I hope u have the answer

Greetings M.H

[soundog]

I think the LaScalas will sound "cleaner" all around but there is only one way to find out and that is to compare (both you and your girlfriend should compare). Remember placement and room acoustics are also a factor.... side by side comparisons are best but hard to arrange. The LaScalas have what some call "hair trigger" dynamics ... they recover very rapidly producing a clearer more realistic sound. While generally speaking this is much better, it can also show up deficiencies in amps and recordings ... what equipment do you have? Maybe a good sub added to the RF-3s might be an alternative choice.

[JohnA]

I have 2 pair of La Scalas. but unfortunately, have never seen RF-3s. Soundog has described the La Scalas very well. I think they have a few flaws and only one cannot be removed easily. The worst flaw is a ringing in the squawker horn. That is fixed by wrapping the squawker horn in rope caulk or other clay that will not harden or a product called Dynamat. The bass horn also suffers from some resonance affecting male voices, but it is subtle and not usually offensive. A horizontal brace across the bass horn would probably solve that problem. The tweeter is mounted the the rear of the baffle and "looks" through a 19mm deep "tunnel". This causes some harshness in the highs and is fixed by front mounting the tweeter. Klipsch makes "Z" brackets to do just that (the tweeter opening must be enlarged). Some of the 80s models had a really poor sounding crossover network (Type AL) and it has to be replaced. The newest, Type AL-3 or Al Klappenberger's crossovers are good replacements. Finally, the La Scala's bass horn begins to roll off at 60 Hz and little bass is present below 45 to 50 Hz. Nothing can be done for this, but buying subwoofers. The bass output is in proportion to the rest of the music and the result is very natural sounding, but they will not shake a room.

That said, I will probably never be without a pair of La Scalas; I like them that well. Most of the flaws could be solved by Klipsch and I doubt if I surprised them with my assessment. However, the cost of my modifications on an assembly line would probably not be worth it.

[DLUngurait]

M.H,

I think one of the biggest differences between the LaScala and the RF-3 (in fact between all Heritage models and newer Reference & Synergy Series speakers)is the use of a midrange (squaker) horn as opposed to just a horn tweeter. The LaScala will be much stronger in the midrange...much clearer vocals and other instruments in that range. The RF-3's will put out more and lower bass and the very highest frequencies will be also be stronger (crispier?).

The Forte also features a midrange horn and yet you prefered the sound of the RF's...I would think that most would find the LaScalas' sound more like the Forte than the RF-3 although both the Forte and the RF-3 have alot more bass than LaScalas.

What SoundDog mentions about the LaScalas being revealing/exposing poor electronics is VERY important...I know that my cheap Sony HT receiver sounded horrible w/my LaScalas as compaired to my KG-3.5's (I've since switched back to my 2 channel sepates system for music listening).

One last note: LaScalas definately need help from a sub, especially if you listen to much modern music with lots of deep bass.

I vote for the LaScalas...but then, I'm not listening with your ears.

Good Luck

Dave

[Ray Garrison]

MH,

I own La Scalas. I have never heard RF-3's, or any of the Reference series, in my house. I DO have Epic CF4 and and older pair of KG4. I have also owned B&W 801 (original "F" series from late 80's and the later Matrix Monitor III series), Theil CS 3.5, VMPS SuperTower II A/R, bunch of others.

The La Scalas sound more different from any other speaker that I have heard that any other of these speakers sounds different from the others. Uh, I hope that made sense... in other words, you had better spend some time LISTENING to La Scalas before you buy them, if there is any way possible for you to do this, because you will, most likely, either like them a LOT or not like them much at all. The fully horn loaded midrange has a life-like dynamic quality that I couldn't find in any other speaker I could afford, and I prefer them to any other speaker I've ever had. My wife loves them as well. So do most of my friends. I have a couple of friends, however, who HATE them. One of those owns Vandersteen IIs, the other owns Dunlevy SC IVs. Neither would take the La Scalas if I gave them the La Scalas as a gift.

And yes, the bass response is very, very limited, particularly when you hear it coming out of such a big cabinet. I use a subwoofer. Some folks on this board don't think it's possible to mate a traditional subwoofer (fairly small direct radiating driver) to a horn looded woofer without compromising the system's sound to an unacceptable degree. I don't think so... I think my REL Storm sub works fine with the La Scalas, and I wouldn't want to be without it. Again, though, you're going to have to listen for yourself and decide, because it's not going to sound like any other system you've heard. Unless you make a regular habit of going to local clubs and listening to music, that is...

Ray

------------------

Music is art

Audio is engineering

[M.H]

Hi

Thank u all for the reply's

U all gave me verry good tips.

I shall answer some questions..

Sounddog said:what equipment do you have? Maybe a good sub added to the RF-3s might be an alternative choice.

** Well..i am a brand new in this audio stuff,but it really get me hooked..

So my equipment is not the best of the best yet..

I wanted to upgrade my speakers first and then find the best amplifier and cd-player fot that speaker..

Now i have a pioneer 906 dolby digital amplifier..

Not that bad,but surly not what i have in mind for the future..

Same goes for the cd-player..now i use a pioneer PD-S505 stable platter..i will upgrade that 1 also in the near future..

I think a subwoofer is a option,but not for my RF-3..

I want a total upgrade in my sound...not only a deeper bass..

In fact..i dont care of a deep bass at all..

I search for a detailled an loose bass..

Maybe is a sub a option for the LaScala??

John Albright said:The worst flaw is a ringing in the squawker horn. That is fixed by wrapping the squawker horn in rope caulk or other clay that will not harden or a product called Dynamat. The bass horn also suffers from some resonance affecting male voices, but it is subtle and not usually offensive. A horizontal brace across the bass horn would probably solve that problem. The tweeter is mounted the the rear of the baffle and "looks" through a 19mm deep "tunnel". This causes some harshness in the highs and is fixed by front mounting the tweeter. Klipsch makes "Z" brackets to do just that (the tweeter opening must be enlarged). Some of the 80s models had a really poor sounding crossover network (Type AL) and it has to be replaced. The newest, Type AL-3 or Al Klappenberger's crossovers are good replacements.

**Thx for these tips..

This is exactly what i whas hoping for..

Things to pay attention to when i have a soundsession..

But do ALL LaScala's have these problems??

I mean..i go buy a brand new pair..

Are these flaws not fixed these day's???..

And is it really annoying??..ore do u really have to listen very attentive before u hear it..

U also talked about a crossover

problem in the 80s models..

I think i dont have that problem now??

I mean..i hope they have fixed that flaw now??.

DLUngurait said:The LaScala will be much stronger in the midrange...much clearer vocals and other instruments in that range. The RF-3's will put out more and lower bass and the very highest frequencies will be also be stronger (crispier?).

The Forte also features a midrange horn and yet you prefered the sound of the RF's...I would think that most would find the LaScalas' sound more like the Forte than the RF-3 although both the Forte and the RF-3 have alot more bass than LaScalas.

**When i had the Forte for a test i also discoverred that the vocals where more lifelike then the RF-3..

I really liked that..

The only thing i missed in the Forte whas the "fresh" sound..

In my opinion the RF has a verry "fresh" sound..

And the high frequenties sounded a bit more agresive (hard to explain in my poor english)..

That whas the main reason i sticked to the RF..

Because i really like the high frequentie in the RF line..

Only the mid and the low frequentie are a bit boring..

Thats why i hope to find the solution in the LaScala

I know that the Forte is more like the Lascala then the RF..

But dont get me wrong...

I really liked the Forte sound..

It was a hard choice for me to make..

I whas thinking to keep them both..

But unfortunally my girlfriend didnt liked that

Ray Garrison said:. The fully horn loaded midrange has a life-like dynamic quality that I couldn't find in any other speaker I could afford, and I prefer them to any other speaker I've ever had. My wife loves them as well. So do most of my friends. And yes, the bass response is very, very limited, particularly when you hear it coming out of such a big cabinet. I use a subwoofer.

** This is exactly the sound i am looking for..

I think i would love the mid section..

Also i am sure i would jump of joy when i hear the detail in the bass,and the loose sound ..

Maybe i will be a bit disapointed when the bass is so poor.

Because i am used to the RF..

They give me some times a bit to much bass..

Not really the kind i like..

The only think i am a bit afraid of is the high frequentie..

I get agitated when i listen to the RF and i hear the detail in the high frequentie..

It sounds so lifelike to me..

It will be a major disapointment when the LaScala will lose it compare to the RF in the high frequentie..

Anyway..there is only 1 solution for me..

And that is to listen very carefully for myself..

There is also another little problem..

And that is the size of those monsters..

Here in Holland we dont have such big houses as u in America

If i put these speakers in my lifingroom it will be the same effect as u will park 2 big chevrolets in youre livingroom..

Also those speakers a very expensive over here..

I mean..u have to pay a lot,but i have to much more

So it must be really good before i spend so much money..

I hope the LaScala will make my dreams come true,i really do..

Greetings M.H

[JohnA]

M.H.,

The latest La Scalas have a the Type AL-3 crossover. It should be a very good crossover and I would be slow to replace it. The latest ones also have a fiberglass squawker horn that should not ring as much as the aluminum horns my La Scalas have. However, it took me about a year to "hear" the ringing I described. Once you notice it, it is obvious, but most people will not notice for a while. The same applies to the bass horn resonance. I normally notice it only on Seal's voice.

John

[Colin]

big old horns in general have excellent mid-range and their bass is good too, except in the last few years people want the low bass (less than 40Hz) to articulate the mid range, the image and to enjoy the special effects of movies,

in general, big old horns are quite revealing and you may find yourself trading up your front end equipment after awhile - that's okay - on many other systems, people just lose interest in the sound quality, but on horns, they often hate or love the mid-range sound

LaScalas are big - it is a ship of state in the audio league, but don't buy a yacht if you don't have a place to park it - look for the smaller models, such as the Chorus or Heresys instead, you will get the same effect of horns in a smaller package ...

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big old horns, tube amps, tube pre-amp, British CD player, two subs, double wire, pipe insulation, paving stones, rubber mats & curtains

[drobo1]

It's really not fair to compare many of the current Klipsch lines with the Klipschhorns, La Scalas, and Belle Klipschs. These are true horn loaded speakers over their operating ranges and many of the newer Klipsch speakers are cone direct radiators like so many other generic speakers. I mean to say that it's not fair for the non-horn loaded speakers. I have always liked my La Scalas since I purchased them new in 1979 but I didn't realize their full potential until I tweaked them and began to drive them with low watt SET tube amps a few years ago. I damped the horns with rope caulk, rewired the inside, and replaced the old AA crossovers with Al K's. I do believe a good musical sub woofer is worth the money to fill out the lower octave. I use an REL Strata II and with it's controls I can blend it quite well with the Scalas. Every few months I go to the high end stores to listen to the Martin Logan's, B&W's, Sonus Faber's, and Magneplanars. They all have their strong points but I never have an inferior complex when I get home with my setup. "IT'S ALIVE!".

drobo

P.S. I do have to admit that the little RB-5 is one hell of a speaker. It's my favorite Reference line speaker.

This message has been edited by drobo1 on 09-04-2001 at 09:44 PM

[Marvel]

If you search through the Audio Asylum files, you will find a post by DJK (who posts a lot here also). He put forth a mod for LaScalas that meant closing in the top part of the cabinet, making an opening from the sealed woofer enclosure into that, stuffing it with fiberglass and porting it. It kept the stock K-33E speaker, and gave you more bottom end out of the cabinet. He didn't say what size the ports should be. I think it pretty much doubles the internal volume off the sealed enclosure. I had calculated the volume recently, but I'm at work and not at home. Of course, you wouldn't want to do that to a brand new cabinet. If you didn't mind the added height, it would be easier to add on to the bottom of the cabinet since it already has an access point for the woofer.

If djk has more info on that, I'm doing some drawings that I will post on my web site (no, it's not there yet. Only pages for my church) I am doing them in Caligari TrueSpace 4.3. I also want to post all the LaScala drawings I've collected from different people (if they don't mind). I'm still looking for the right plywood to use. Our local Home Depot had 9 ply birch, with almost all plys the same thickness. It was really nice and only $36 a sheet. When I went back to get some for this, they only had 7 ply available.

Cheers,

Marvel

[M.H]

Hello

Thx again for the reply's

Sorry for my late respons,but i had some problems with my connection..damn cable.

Anyway..i'm glad to hear that some flaws are fixed with the new models..

And the few flaws who are still there are easy to fix (if i read it right)..

Next friday i have a soundsession with the Klipsch dealer..

He warned me that the LaScala need some good hardware..

So maybe my pioneer 906 aint good enough for them..

But first i hear them play on some really nice equipment..

They are wired to a tube amplifier..

So i am a bit curious how that will sound...

If the first test is a succes he will bring me a pair to my home to test it on my own set..

I have heard 2 speaker types with a midhorn..

The KLF-30 and the Forthe..(i heard the LaScala to short to get a good impression)..

Both impressed me much with the vocals..

So i am counting the day's to friday to hear a 3 horn system play..

Really looking forward to it..

I will let u know how the test went

See ya soon..

Greetings M.H

This message has been edited by M.H on 09-07-2001 at 11:51 AM

[dougdrake2]

MH - I'm just impressed you have a dealer that actually has a La Scala!!

dd2

[Ray Garrison]

And I'm impressed that the dealer not only HAS a pair of La Scalas, but he's going to * BRING THEM OVER TO YOUR PLACE * for you to listen to? Does his brother own a trucking company?

Have FUN!

Ray

------------------

Music is art

Audio is engineering

[M.H]

Hahaha..no..he doesnt own a truck company

But this Klipsch dealer aint a normal dealer..

He is specialist in the top Klipsch line..

LaScala..Klipschhorn..Heresy and la Belle only..

And he only brings them to youre home when he knows that you are very serious..

I think the service over here goes a bit further because they are really expensive here in Holland..

And the only way to make sure they match right with youre equipment and youre home acoustic is to test them at home..

But to be honest..its pritty normal here to try hifi equipment at home before u buy them..

Is that differend in America??

Can u guy's test them in the shop only??

M.H

[Ray Garrison]

Over here it is very difficult to find a pair of Klipschorns, La Scalas or Belles in stock at ANY dealer. Very, very few dealers will dedicate the showroom square footage and setup requirements to the Heritage line. I don't know whether this is because most of them are focused on multi-channel setups, and very few folks have room for four or five Heritage series speakers, or other reasons, but that's the way it is. You are very fortunate.

Ray

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Music is art

Audio is engineering

[dougdrake2]

"Over here it is very difficult to find a pair of Klipschorns, La Scalas or Belles in stock at ANY dealer. Very, very few dealers will dedicate the showroom square footage and setup requirements to the Heritage line."

Not to mention that Klipsch isn't manufacturing any of these at the present time, until parts supply challenges are resolved. Your dealer must be sitting on some inventory. Wired1, here's your chance to get your Heritage speakers and a trip to the Netherlands all in one shot!!

DD2

[Q-Man]

Ray,

Don't waste alot of your time trying to discribe the KG4's, but I would like to know what you think of them. There is about 3 pairs of them on ebay right now. I'm thinking of buying a paid for my mother.

Thanks, Q.

------------------

Q-Man

This message has been edited by Q-Man on 09-07-2001 at 07:00 PM

[M.H]

I am a bit suprised..

Why is it so hard to find a LaScala in stock???

I mean..it is a american product..

I thought is whas so easy for u to buy such a speaker..

quote:

---

Not to mention that Klipsch isn't manufacturing any of these at the present time, until parts supply challenges are resolved.

---

Hmmm...again a suprise for me..

Because someboddy told me that it would be hard to find a LaScala here in Holland now..

He said the same thing..they cant be delivered right now and when they come back they will be 1.5 times more expensive then before..

Maybe this dealer has indead some pair in stock??

Perhaps the last pair i can find here in Holland??

I shall ask him,becuase if its true that it will become 1.5 times more expensive it will be to much for me..

I keep my fingers crossed..(Dutch expression)