Reading assignment

[Deang]

Looks like Gil is really slacking off these days.

He's probably not aware of it, but Dennis got me hooked on reading patents. Most of you will have to download a compatible TIFF viewer so you can view the orginal patent documents/images. Use this one: http://www.alternatiff.com/

Go the Patent Office Search-page: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

For now, click on 'patent number search'. I just got done reading 2612558 again. There are a lot of different ways to search, and it takes a little time to get comfortable out there, but the wealth of information is immense and more than worth the effort it takes to find it.

[DizRotus]

Cool!

Thanks Dean.

Years ago I spent an afternoon at the patent office in Crystal City (D.C.). It was an interesting experience. The thing that impressed me the most was the number of items that appeared to be functionally identical, yet each received a patent.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The lesson I took away is the value of a competent, experienced and honest patent attorney. The foregoing should be able to get a patent issued that makes infringement difficult, while simultaneously avoids challenges from other patent holders.

The Wright brothers spent years in patent litigation. They had the right stuff but their patent attorney probably did not.

[djk]

How about a different dual 12" corner horn design? Very, very easy to build (only a few 45* angles, no compound stuff). The Lab-12 cast frame drivers cost me $115 each in 12 lot (add shipping).

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040238268%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040238268&RS=DN/20040238268

Fig.5C on page 17 shows correct corner placement. Fig.7 shows frequency response (outdoors at 30' with 100W, gives same as 1W/1M sensitivity), 10" off floor being 100dB/W at 30hz (vs Klipschorn being 98dB at 40hz, and the Jubilee being 95dB at 40hz, both measured outside under similar conditions as the B-DEAP).

Use the mid-bass horn from the older Jubilee with the HF from an RF-7

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=502

A passive crossover could be designed, but a tri-amp would be easiest.

Used EAW MR-102s are around.

I have a pair of these that I picked up on eBay for about $230 including shipping (I used to have 26 of these, this set was in perfect shape and went for less than the EV drivers normally go for). I use some EV horns that are time aligned with the midbass.

http://www.gravitymusicgear.com/pictures/mids_062404.JPG

[Daddy Dee]

Are we going to have a test on this?

[Deang]

I think most of us would fail. He goes deep really fast, and you need excellent math skills to keep up. Are you all ready for the next one? It lays to rest the prevailing idea that he thought the Type AA was the end all.

[Hardhead]

Interesting reading.

[colterphoto1]

djk, it makes my head hurt and I couldn't see the drawings- I don't like your homework no more.

[D-MAN]

Patents only need to specify an IMPROVEMENT to the current state of the art, not necissarily a whole new thing. It has only to be a NEW IMPROVEMENT.

If you read carefully in the supposedly alike patents, you will find the difference. Look for things like "the improvement consists", or it could be conceptual, in the preamble, where a "need" or problem with the current art is pointed out and the patent invention meets it or solves it in some way.

In the case of loudspeaker patents, it is preferred to build a complete enclosure that incorportates the "improvement", as the iomporvement could not stand on its own without the rest of the cabinet. This leads to confusion amongst the "laymen" (i.e., us) because the articles in question look (at least superficially) alike.

Let's say that you have come up with an improvement to a driver voice-coil or vc-arrangement which has not been done before. In the patent application, I would expect to see a loudspeaker driver, although loudspeaker drivers certainly exist prior to the improvement. See what I mean?

DM

[Deang]

djk, it makes my head hurt and I couldn't see the drawings- I don't like your homework no more.

That's what happens when you don't follow instructions -- you didn't download the TIFF viewer I provided the link for in my first post.

[Deang]

http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=04237340&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D4237340.WKU.%2526OS%3DPN%2F4237340%2526RS%3DPN%2F4237340&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=6B1F3329502B

Dennis' notes on the above from another post:

"The 128µF cap across the woofer increases the response at 350hz to fill in the hole in the frequency response of a Klipschorn, Belle, and LaScala. That is why all the current versions of the afore mentioned models have this cap in their networks...I recommend you try the 230µH + 4µF on the K55V along with the 6µF change on the tweeter. PWK designed this to lift the falling response of the K55V before slamming it off hard at 5Khz. Because of the non-coincidence of the mid-range and the tweeter there are a series of dips and peaks on either side of the crossover point. Cutting the midrange off with a steep filter like this will reduce both the frequency spread and amplitude of these peaks. Just changing the second capacitor in the tweeter circuit does improve the sound but the full effect won't be there until you help the mid-range clean up its act too. As far as the 128µF cap in parallel with the woofer goes I have seen values from 100~140µF used. I have also used 68µF in parallel with the woofer and a Zobel of 6 ohms in series with 27µF and this combination also wired in parallel with the woofer. This last combination is the most benign for an amp to drive. The 140µF is the worst. Anybody having a real POS amp should use the 68µF with the 6 ohm + 27µF Zobel. Good quality electrolitic caps are ok for the woofer circuit although Klipsch uses high quality film types here. The 4µF in parallel with the midrange must be a very high quality film type. It should be pointed out that it is very easy to try the different caps on the woofer. Put a card table in front of one speaker at a good listening distance. Run a suitable length of zip cord from the woofer terminals out to the table. Wire one of the 27µF caps in series with the 6 ohm resistor.Set the other 6 ohm resistor to the side. Buss together one end of both 68µF caps, the second 27µF cap, and one end of the Zobel. With a bunch of clip leads from Radio Shack you can try both 68µF in parallel (136µF), a 68µF and a 27µF in parallel (95µF),a nd a 68µF by itself and with the Zobel. Keep the volume low but loud enough to hear what is going on. Whatever sounds best is best. This is a $10 experiment and the worst thing that could happen would be to find you liked the 136µF value the best and found you had to order another pair of 68µF caps. Otherwise you have enough parts to make two of every combo that you tried. In case this is not clear I will reiterate: the peaks and dips are greater than seen from the drivers themselves because of driver spacing."

[djk]

You need Active X enabled to run TIFF. If you have it disabled for security you should get a dialog box asking you if you want to run it for this page only, check yes.

At work we cannot run Active X for security purposes. They finally figured out how to let me run it so I could visit the USPTO.

[D-MAN]

Interesting, this is the first example I have actually seen of a "Published Application"; that is, it is not an actual issued patent. That comes later.

There is a period that the patent application is published to the public for inspection and to see if there are "encumbrances" to the issuing of the patent.

Others out there, including compeditors are allowed to see the application and to submit complaints that might influence whether the patent is to be authorized or not.

It costs roughly $500 to file a complaint against an application, so it's not a free ride for those opposed to the issuing of a particular patent. It also has to be in the right format, so add a laywer's fee(s) to that.

My first patent application publishing date is slated to occur in about 6 months. Then you guys can get a gander at it.

DM

[D-MAN]

Here is the front page of the published application as posted by djk above.

DM

[djk]

Thanks D-MAN, I haven't mastered pasting images yet.

The image shows how simple the design is to build.

The full text and images give the dimensions.

Danley has his own company now, this is assigned to Servo-Drive and cannot be duplicated for commercial use. In general a pair for home use is not a problem, the sale of a finished pair would be.

[WMcD]

My friend Dean is giving me grief. Smile.

But yes, I've been doing some other Klipsch and horn related matters rather than posting articles. I'll get back to it.

I will have some interesting stuff at Indy for show and listen, Lord willing.

= = =

The USPTO public search room is a wonder and also a bit depressing. There is just so much. More than 5 million patent documents in the "shoes". That is a reference to when they were kept in shoe boxes. The website give access to the patents, as we know.

= = = =

I'll point out that a vast majority of patents are improvements, one way or the other. But the applicant is not required to specifically set out the old art and then say what the improvement may be. The applicant does have to convince the examiner that the invention is non-obvious.

You can do that (specifically claim an improvement) in the U.S. and the European countries generally require it.

The result, though, is that it is difficult to interpret the claim section of the patent and pick out what is the improvement. When it comes to litigation that will be necessary.

I recommend the Klipsch patent on the Valerie and the one on the MCM as being good primers on horn design. Unfortunately I don't have the numbers here.

Best,

Gil

[djk]

"I recommend the Klipsch patent on the Valerie and the one on the MCM as being good primers on horn design. Unfortunately I don't have the numbers here."

4,210,223 MCM

4,138,594 LB-76

PAT. NO. Title

1 D317,450 Loudspeaker

2 5,000,286 Modular loudspeaker system

3 4,387,786 Anechoic chamber arrangement

4 4,237,340 Crossover network for optimizing efficiency and improving response of loudspeaker system

5 4,210,223 Low frequency folded exponential horn loudspeaker apparatus with bifurcated sound path

6 D254,491 High frequency loudspeaker

7 D253,819 Low frequency loudspeaker

8 D253,700 Midrange frequency loudspeaker

9 D253,699 Loudspeaker system

10 4,138,594 Small dimension low frequency folded exponential horn loudspeaker with unitary sound path and loudspeaker system including same

You need to have the patent number to do an easy search before 1976.

[Deang]

You need to have the patent number to do an easy search before 1976.

Yes, and lucky for us you apparently have those tatooed on your body somewhere.

[djk]

I've lost 175lbs since October, the space is shrinking!

[Tom Mobley]

175 lbs??!!! You must be very disciplined. I was diagnosed diabetic in 2000, lost 65, gained back 30, lost 35, gained back 20 since foot surgery killed my exercise habit. 218 now, time to get rolling on the exercise again, I want to get into the 180s.

You have PM and email. I've offered to send you a little text file that shows how to post clickable links and inline pics. I wrote it up a couple years ago, it worked for several people here.

[Tom Mobley]

in fact, I now see that plain text files can be uploaded to the forum.

when you go to the link in this post it will ask if you want to

save the file, say yes and park it somewhere it's easy to get to.

EDIT, as of now it's choosing to display the file rather than download it. The lines are all goofed up, real long, but you can see the samples. If you have a PC you can right-click on the displayed files and save it to your machine.

pasteurls.txt