colterphoto1 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 GREAT articles and test reports Steve, I've know they sounded like hell, now I know exactly why. Somewhat misleading though are the numbers around the 'reproduces 66% of the available frequencies' which does not take into consideration the logarithmic scale of frequencies expressed as Hz. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrol21 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I feel very enlightened now. I appreciate you taking the time to let me know how you really feel! Your last post has really pumped my up and motivated me get out there and educate the misinformed including the accociates at the Bose stores "Friends don't let friends buy Bose." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I have done extensive testing on the Bose Lifestyle System and thier Bass Modules. In a side by side comparison the Bose module had thunderous bass. It also was very musical as long as you don't expect much below 50hz. In the testing, the Bose Lifestyle cubes reproduced the highs with enthusiasm. Bose did squeek out a win. The Bose Lifestyle system at the time, I believe cost $1999.00 The loser of this contest was the Aiwa Boom Box that cost $99.00 So you see, it is all perspective...... After the testing, I performed destructive testing on the Lifestyle system and can honestly say it lasted for a while. Those little cubes are built very tough. The Bass Module is actually built pretty weak. All in all. It was more fun destroying it than listening to it! You should have seen what I did to a 901 speaker! It was not pretty....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmesa Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 I dont believe in the bose products, but I am absolutely mesmerized by their marketing success. I honestly look up to them in that regard. How they can sell a 50 dollar wave radio for 500 dollars, have it sound no better than a cheap pair of desktop speakers and yet still get 99.9% of their buyers to think it sounds better Its borderline brainwashing.. but genius indeed! If you take a closer look, bose actually charge a higher price for their smaller speakers. As if "smaller" or "micro" is the "wave" of the future.. Smaller is better because technology is changing right? Actually speakers have not changed hardly at all in over 60 years. Take a look at the 321 Series II DVD home entertainment system. MSRP 1000 dollars. And the 321 GS Series II DVD home entertainment system retails for 1300 (300 more dollars). What is the difference? The more expensive system has smaller speakers which granted, I have not compared either system, but I can not see how in a million years a smaller speaker of the same design by the same manufacture would yield to better sound quality over the larger one. The only thing they could do is perhaps make the xmax of the driver, higher to achieve the same SPL. They would also have to pump up the amp and bose claims the 1300 dollar ones are more powerful which means just that. So essentially you'll get at best, similar sound quality for 300 more money to shave a few inches off an already tiny speaker. But thats not where it ends. People actually believe the smaller ones sound better. Like they have some sort of magical technological breakthrough different from all other speakers! Honesty, how many people actually know how a loud speaker really works? 1 in a 1000 I would speculate. The common public is easily persuaded by the promising words of uniqueness and quality, backed by thousands of trademarks and patents which work together to create the fabric of the Bose market manipulation layer! Its freaking genius! Someone quote me, Im on a roll! The Lifestyles are no different. That 4000 dollar model actually features smaller Jewel cubes than all the other models. I have actually had the opportunity to compare the larger cube to the new smaller one. There is a pretty big distinction in favor of the older larger ones, and yet people still want the smaller ones because they think it sounds better and also, it just so happens to fit into any home because its so Virtually Invisible. The Wife Approval Factor is unchallenged when it comes to Bose, so you know everyone will be happy with the purchase. Its true form follows function as Frank Lloyd Write would put it (yeah right no pun intended) with the bose Jewel cube, small, accurate and ideal! But the truth is, the speaker is a far cry from anything in its price range even holding the size constant, Klipsch own RSX-3s would be a deadly opponent for any Jewel Cube. Bose is dead last for value and close to dead last for sound quality. Fortunately, most of the products bose competes against are Sony and Panasonic IAB (In a box) solutions that are plagued with cheap construction which makes the bose look so much more appealing. Someone ought to write a book about the company and cover all aspects, but I wonder if that would be illegal to prophet from that kind of thing? Does anyone know? hahah klipsch is gonna get in trouble for hosting this thread ;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 ---------------- On 6/21/2005 5:26:21 PM Blackmesa wrote: I dont believe in the bose products, but I am absolutely mesmerized by their marketing success. I honestly look up to them in that regard. How they can sell a 50 dollar wave radio for 500 dollars, have it sound no better than a cheap pair of desktop speakers and yet still get 99.9% of their buyers to think it sounds better… Its borderline brainwashing.. but genius indeed! If you take a closer look, bose actually charge a higher price for their smaller speakers. As if "smaller" or "micro" is the "wave" of the future.. Smaller is better because technology is changing right? Actually speakers have not changed hardly at all in over 60 years. ---------------- Blackmesa, This goes on every day and is done by probably 90% of the companies making speakers. Many on these very boards are mesmerized by the latest $10,000pr small (or big) bookshelf speaker because it is made of unobtanium. They never question the marketing of unobtanium and its use for speakers.... Believe me PRICING and fancy advertising (B&W?) is the main driver of sales in the speaker world. If it costs mega bucks, by golly it must be better. A lowly cheap speaker could not possibly sound as good as a megabuck model, when in truth, they often do! The #1 piece of wisdom to always remember is that hearing, yes that is right, hearing is the EASIEST sense to fool with human beings. It makes it especially hard to AB test audio gear. Many manufacturers say "try it for a few weeks, let it break in to see if it improves", this idea was born in the sales dept to allow the user to get used to crappy sound, and keep whatever speakers they had bought. If you ever hear that line, run from the dealer! I could go on, but remember, hearing is so easily fooled that an AB test is hard to do and requires great concentration. Good Luck and remember, people think Bose sounds good because they expect it, when in fact Bose did ground breaking research into how much of the audio spectrum could be missing, and still have a pleasant sound. They are masters at giving you the least amount of the audio spectrum, for the most money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmesa Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 B0$e is a known joke in the audio world,and this joke is on all who purchase(read waste money)on this compost filler. Yes Acoustic Mess and Direct Repulsive are TRADEMARKS of B0$e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 ---------------- On 6/22/2005 9:33:51 PM TheEAR wrote: B0$e is a known joke in the audio world,and this joke is on all who purchase(read waste money)on this compost filler. Yes Acoustic Mess and Direct Repulsive are TRADEMARKS of B0$e ---------------- Blo$e® AcoustiCrap® Direct/Repulsive® Shriekers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 If you have to buy black cube speakers, get Cambridge SoundWorks, they are cheaper and sound better than the Bose® cubes. Bose is smart in that they have taken what basically are nice $150.00 PC speakers and sold them as high-end audio system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 okay, the mathmatician in me HAD to figure it out. (note- this is NOT exact). 202-280 Hz (the missing mids) is roughly 80 Hz. At that range 200-400 would be a full octave. So 80 out of that 200 is about 1/2 of that octave. 20-45 Hz is a little over 1 octave, and the 13 kHz to 20 kHz is close to 2/3 of an octave. Total is roughly 2 octaves missing out of a total of 10. This means that 20 percent of the sound is 'missing' or 80% of sound is usable. Compared to the 66% the reviewer gets by treating each Hz as the same, not taking into account the logarthmic nature of the cps scale. Just wanted to point out this one very glaring inaccuracy in the article. Of course, add to the 'missing' parts of the spectrum the portions that are obliterated by the +/- 10 dB response curve and the myriad distortions raised by the thin paper cones used in the cubes and horrific bass waveform guides and it's a MESS. Not worthy of even a clock radio, let alone a home theatre system. A friend of mine put these all over his condo. I won't go visit him any more. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 ---------------- On 6/22/2005 10:54:56 PM colterphoto1 wrote: A friend of mine put these all over his condo. I won't go visit him any more. ---------------- Oh man, that line was hilarious (I hope I didn't wake me parents up from the loud burst of laughter). What I find even more amazing about the bose crap is that so many people still feel they are amazing speakers. It just goes to show how good our minds are at decieving ourselves into hearing something that's not even there. All the men in my girlfriend's family are Bose lovers and it's so hard for me to hold my tongue...the few times I chime in, they think I'm crazy for saying Bose sounds like crap - the thing is, they honestly think I'm crazy or being a pompous arrogant prick (they know I mix for a living) because they actually go out and demo them and are actually raving about the sound! What worse is one of her cousins is actually down in Nashville recording for a living - I can't imagine him lasting too long though because he partially buys into the Bose hype as well (which just makes them further think I'm a looney). So much for impressing her family, lol. I would love to bring them to my house and they can bring their systems over for an AB demo. I just find it amazing at how well our minds can decieve us into thinking we hear things that really aren't there (ie, a whole 2 octaves). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Dr. Who, I would recommend not saying anything bad about Bose. Your family life will be much better. Just always encourage them to continue to pursue their quest for better sound. This will automatically lead them away from Bose. Plus, they will think your a very nice guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 My Klipsch dealer has a set of Bose speakers hooked up right next to the Cinema series (they carry the full line) so their customers can A-B the ones they'd like to compare with the Bose. I A-B'd the Bose speakers with one of the smaller Cinema speakers and it was almost like comparing an el cheapo pair of computer speakers to a floorstander. You do have to credit Bose's marketing department on getting the message out that they are the standard in audio gear. I always find it interesting that people (the general public, not audio enthusiasts) are hesitant to criticize Bose because of their brand image. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Worse than that, I know many people who think Bose is the best, of course, they love the small size, where I, as a big ole horns lover, equate size with sensitivity, clarity and accuracy the bigger the better! IMO, $500 heritage loudspeakers like the Cornwall and LaScallas I bought are the ideal value for near excellent sound at entry level prices. I reviewed the Bose jewel cubes, but publisher was afraid to print the story without Bose express permission (we didnt pursue it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted June 23, 2005 Moderators Share Posted June 23, 2005 Just a small interjection here about the Registered trademark. I believe legally you have to put it on the first mention only of a registered name per page. That's why it's on the first Acoustimass (the header) and not the second (in the bullet points). Useless trivia, I know. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 ---------------- On 6/23/2005 12:16:04 PM Amy Unger wrote: Just a small interjection here about the Registered trademark. I believe legally you have to put it on the first mention only of a registered name per page. That's why it's on the first Acoustimass (the header) and not the second (in the bullet points). Useless trivia, I know. Carry on. ---------------- Actually, that is correct. I checked some websites, such as HTML Writers Guild, and all say that you only need to put it on the most prominent instance, or if there is no "prominant instance", put it on the first instance. Just looking through the Bose websites, they do have an annoying tendency to put it after every friggan instance of a trademark. I was looking at one page that had three instances of the word "Lifestyle" in a single paragraph, and yup, all three had a "registered" symbol after it. Actually, you don't have to use it anywhere, and I don't think any of those campanies can force you to use it, such as in all these posts about Bose and such. If Bose had it thier way, we'd all have to put that stupid little thing after every instance of "Bose", "Lifestyle", "Wave", etc. I can understand putting it in ad copy to keep the lawyers happy, but those things just look so friggan ugly, and gets down-right annoying seeing it on what seems like every fifth word in Bose ad-copy. A quick look through the Klipsch product pages is not so bad, although I noticed that in the RF-7 product description, the "TM" was used after every instance of "Ceramatallic" (Surprised you guys did not register that, since you guys did register "Tractrix"). As ugly as those stupid things look in print, but I guess that is one of the evils of protecting your trademarks. If you didn't put those in, somebody else could sweep in and "claim" it as thier own. They could then say, "See, look! Klipsch (using an example) never said/indicated it was a trademark on thier website/brochure/magazine ad/etc." It just goes to show how over protective Bose is of thiers, though (going so far as to suing CEDIA over the use of "Lifestyle"!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 LOL. I have a very small feeling (somewhat founded), that Bose is not doing as well as they have been for the last decade or so. Between a lot more small systems on the market (even HTiB systems!) and more education (internet research!!!), I think they are selling less product, especially the Lifestyle and Acoustamass systems. Not fact, just something I have put together. Also, their displays have gone from metal and faux marble to plastic and fabric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Nasty Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Bose is a very big and rich company, they are making a lot more money than Klipsch is i am sure about that. There are more Bose users than Klipsch all around the world. Even third world countries actually have BOSE shops and offices all around. The thing with them is that if they don't know how to build "speakers" "may be they do" " but they are excellent at Marketing... Even here in Australia (godamit) (supposed to be more civilized), out of 100 people, i am sure that 99% know about bose and may be only 2 - 3% would know about klipsch, B&w, Ariel Acoustics or Martin Logan etc... I've travelled a lot, i've been to Fiji, Bali, Seychelles, Mauritius, Reunion, Rodrigues, Madasgascar ( they are all holiday Islands and they all have BOSE and bose is very well know by almost everyone. They've put they idea in people's mind that small is better and new, bid is old and bad. I once invited a few friends to my place just wanted to show my setup, mind you my system consist of R7's RC7, RF 35 a Sunfire Sig sub!!!, Earthquakes 12", they all listened, their jaws dropped!!! But then, someone said " you know if you had a BOSE instead, the sound would have been much better!!!! and they all agreed Uhuh. I was shocked, and i understood, that we can't change some ordinary people to Audioplile. Only Audiopliles know the difference and who cares. It's only recently that audioplile have started to reveal the bads news about Bose. But who cares they already made billions. May be they have started to drop now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 For $3699, one could come up with something a whole lot better than that. It looks like a combination of a PC, and a clock/radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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