Moving. Heaven help me. Someone. Please.

[wmilas]

I'm so distraught I don't even know where to begin. I guess at the beginning.

14 years ago in college I happened to swing into a hi-fi store. I heard my first "real" setup which was a pair B&W's driven by pair of krell monoblocks. I was hooked.

After scrimping and saving for a year and demoing everything under the sun I could, I finally decided on a pair of Chorus II's driven by Adcom gear (GFA 555 II and a GFP 565). I rounded this out with a Denon DCD 3520 (Cd player) an adcom tuner and a line conditioner. I was in heaven. The adcom gear was (at the time) moderately priced for hi-ish end and I bought the denon used (it was an EXPENSIVE item at the time.. 20 bit linear, full digital in and outs (which i never used But it had a GREAT DA converter as noted for the time.

Fast forward nearly 15 years, 2 apartments, 1 townhouse, 1 Wife, and 2 kids later. The Chorus II's are still heaven. For kicks every now and then if I'm near a high end store I'll demo some of the "new" brands and models and I'm still very happy with the Choruses. I'm currently in a townhouse and my listning room is downstairs (its a walk out) carpeted, and sonicly neutral. I get rich, mellow sound out of my setup and I've upgraded nothing, except to add a DVD player to the mix. I still, mostly out of habit, and probably because I'm used to the DA converter of the denon, use the denon to play my discs. I listen to a mix of 70's and 80's rock (Clapton, Floyd) along with 80's alternative (Echo and the Bunnymen, The Psycadelic Furs) up to an including some of the newer (for me anyways) trance/dance stuff like Paul Oakenfold. I also listen to a healthy mixture of Classical and Chamber. Although every now and then I play it loud, I prefer more moderate levels.

The reason I LOVE my current setup is because the soundstage, even at moderate levels is full and the sounch is "rich" for a lack of a better word. I'm not a stuck up audiophile, but there is something to be said about being completely immersed in a song that can only be done with good gear.

In my study I have a Sony reciever with 5.1 surround sound, hooked up to a wega flat screen. I was trained as a computer enginner (even though its not really what I do anymore) so I've got a good, small box with a fast gigabit link to our house server that can dish video to the wega, or pcm audio via toslink (digital) to the digital in of the sony. The speakers are a descent Mirage 5.1 system. Although its cool and all, its no where near the experience the old "analog" Klipsch/adcom gear is. Mostly because of the weak amp in the sony reciever and the "light weight" mirage speakers. I'm ok with this because well, its for watching movies in my study and listening to music while I tinker on the puter and I'm not really paying attention. I was planning on integrating a good DA into my adcom system that could take flac/pcm data but I really never got around to it because all my discs are stored right next to the adcom gear anyways.

So... My wife and I just bought our dream house. Good for us. This is where things start to go horribly, and I mean HORRIBLY wrong. Its a rather large house and the basement is not yet finished. Since we are more Greatroom type people our new house is an open floorplan in the back with a greatroom blending seemlesly in with the dining area then into the kitchen. We are not big living room type people so the large room with mssive bay windows from floor to cieling that was to be the living room is being turned into my study. Since its going to be more traditional, mohagony ect, We opted NOT to put a tv in there. Its to be relegated to computer use and my play Sony/mirage gear will be integrated, but basicly just for music listening when messing around in the stuff. Well actually, we may move the mirage/sony gear into the master bedroom. We rescently purchased a Sharp Aquas hi def lcd tv for the master bedroom and its really needing some sourround love. The mirages would probably go well in the master suite.

We decided that since I spend ALL my time as it is now in the study, if we put the TV in the greatroom, perhaps a plasma over the stone fireplace, the kids and us would spend more time there, and not me in my study, kids and mom in the family room. When we finish the basement we will not have a home theater down there because we really dont spend all that much time watching movies. We'd rather spend the time with a nice plasma in the greatroom. I had no objectionss

Yesterday I was commenting on how the Chorus II's oiled oak is goign to go pretty good all things considered with the hardwood floors and the cherrywood of the kitchen. (We close on the house June 30th). My wife's face goes blank, she turns to be and says "You werent actually considering putting those ugly beats in our Greatroom, were you?". At this point My face turns a mottled red, I let out an explative and we proceed into one of the REALLY BAD fights married couples get into once on a blue moon. Shes actually expecting that the tinny little speaks in the plasma to be sufficient for our sound needs. Shes never been an audiophile and I'm actually beginning to wonder if shes not tone deaf. I honestly think that she cant tell the difference between a transistor radio and my Chorus II's.

She finally caves in a bit and says that she might allow me to bring the mirages into the family room.

This is NOT going to work. Plain and simple. She points out that if my Chorus II's are as big as they are she asks how big are the center channel and surrounds going to be? I blurt out that I was going to timber match the Chorus II's with an academy in the front and probably a pair of fortes, hereseys, or another set of Chorus II's in the rear. She of course has no idea what this means and simply asks "how big?". At this point I know I'm screwed because, well, you know how big thats going to be.

Now I'm really torn. My dream of a matched 5.1 system is gone based on my Chorus II's. While I don't agree with her view on the sound of them verses the look, I can see how the Chorus II's are a little large, boxy and will not integrate easily into her design scheme. I start desperately searching the Klipsch web site (havent been there in years) and I see the THX 2 system and the new reference series. Ah HA! All might not be lost. The THX 2 system quickly gets tossed out as its not great room friendly. Mostly a dedicated theater type deal. I pull up the floorstanding 7's, take a look and they are Beautiful. I bit large still, BUT they ARE smaller, and come in Cherry! The fronts are rounded so they dont "look" so big. The center channel is manageable and the sourounds are wall moutable and smaller. Great. Then I notice the sub. Then I go back and look ath the technical specs of the RF'7s. Two way. Subwoofer. Two way. Subwoofer. My world starts to melt again.

Admittedly, I have not demoed alot of speakers in the last 10 years but every 2 way speaker I've demoed has NOT sounded as full and my Chorus II'. They seem to lack that seemless effort the Chorus II's have in transitional pieces. Obviously that sub is there for the low end. That scares me. I'm used to all the low end I need directly out of my Chorus II's. Hell in college I knocked the neigbors dishes out of her cupboard with the Chorus II's. (Overature of 1812).

This weeked im going to demo the 7 series. I'm praying I'm not in for a disapointment. I THINK I can talk my wife into the 7 series because it will fit the space. Its a Large room 20x40 feet (actually longer than 40 feet simply because it has no back.. it transitions into the eating area and then the kitchen). From what I've read im pretty confident the 7 series can fill this space for things like 5.1 sound in movies but what about Stereo listening? I take it I'm going to need that sub for stereo? 2.1 scares me. Does it blend well? Whats the crossover point? how transitional is it? Whats the slope of the transition, and is it a slope or is it a curve? is it gradual? Am I Screwed?

If anyone has gone through this kind of thing I'd appreciate any comments or any suggestions on what my options might be.

Thanks in advance for you time

[wrench_peddler]

KY

[KungFuNat]

i have the exact same problem. i LOVE klipsch heritage, but i simply do not have the room, and there would be a huge problem with the size of the speakers if i did. right now im lucky to be getting away with the cornwalls.

in my search for a HT system, i have come to a few conclusions. first and foremost, 2-channel and home theater do not need to be mixed at all. in fact some would say that the extra electronics required for HT use would detract from the sound quality of a 2-channel setup. Second of all, as much as i love all the benefits of my huge cornwalls, the ultimate in sound quality for HT use is simply not needed. yes its nice to have good sound for DVDs and the like, but this can be achieved with smaller speakers with an added subwoofer.

after much searching and auditioning, i have finally settled on a 5-channel set of Triangle speakers paired with an SVS subwoofer, all powered with a denon reciever. after listening to some of the bookshelves in the triangle esprit line, i was impressed with these speakers dynamics and high-frequency smoothness along with high-efficiency, a very klipsh-like sound indeed. now factor in that these speakers are fairly small, and have great fit/finish and you have a speaker with great WAF factor. the best part? they are reasonably priced as well.

i have also looked seriously at the paradigm monitor series and b&W 600 series as these are a bit cheaper and sound good, but unfortunately they are not quite as beautifull or easy to drive.

so my reccomendation is to put your chorus' in the basement for 2-channel listening, and for your livingroom go with a dedicated HT setup. i was very impressed with triangles esprit range, but give a few other options a listen as well, namely B&W/paradigm/klipsch reference bookshelves.

[Frzninvt]

I must have married a saint! My wife lets me have all the speakers listed below our 17' X 14' living room. She only complained once when I stacked Cornwalls on the Khorn's and they almost went to the ceiling (it did look tacky, I admitted it), I moved them back to the floor elsewhere in the room and all was well. She's not big into audio but does enjoy the HT and my little girl loves it!

I would never let any woman dictate where or where not my audio gear or speakers could or could not go, I would send her packing! Get your balls back I think she has them in a jar in the cabinet under the kitchen sink. Act now before the Bose 3-2-1 becomes the pinnacle of your HT system.

[edwinr]

Have you considerd Klipschorns? It sounds like you might have the room for them. They ARE very large, but they slot discretely into corners. Once they're there, they tend to vanish. Except for the sound, of course. In fact the Khorns are probably the most wife friendly large speakers around. Another possibility is a pair of Belles. They feature furniture quality cabinets and are probably the best looking speakers ever made.

[colterphoto1]

not much of a dream home, is it?

I'll try to give some constructive advice later, but what were you two thinking when you bought this home. It doesn't sound like it fits your 'needs' at all!

Has she ever SEEN your Choruses? You make it sound like she never came down to 'your room' in the townhouse. Does she enjoy music or HT at all? Nothing like marrying someone and then buying a quarter million dollar house to argue over.

Michael

[colterphoto1]

yup, you're headed for Bose city alright- open plan living, tile, spacious spaces, lil white boxes....

You have been given YOUR room, that you choose not to put a system in their is your own doing. Commandeer the basement RIGHT NOW and start swinging your hammer. Finances probably call for that space to be finished later, so set up a small system in your 'study' and start planning that HT room.

You've already lost the Great Room, it'll be full of foofy curtains, elephant statues and ferns. Besides, it's a bad match for HT because it and it's attached rooms are probably full of windows- you'd never be able to make it light proof enough for a proper HT. Head South man!

And keep the TV's out of the bedroom- geesh, that room is for other entertainment needs. Maybe a small TV only (no HT) for the news in the am- that's it!

Michael

[edwinr]

----------------

On 6/21/2005 7:15:54 AM colterphoto1 wrote:

yup, you're headed for Bose city alright- open plan living, tile, spacious spaces, lil white boxes....

----------------

Now, Michael. I thought about mentioning that Bose® option, but I wasn't that brave! ®

[Steve_L]

Great post! LOL!

It could be an article for Readers Digest or a Marriage Counselor's trade magazine.

Really.. laughing with you, not at you!! LOL!! Thanks!!

PS I'm sure the RF-7s will be wonderful and will open up a whole new world of music for you.

(Try some jazz.)

[colterphoto1]

you could always take out a second mortgage and purchase some testicles.

KIDDING, just kidding, it's a joke, don't take it personal

Michael

[wmilas]

First off, It IS our dream house. except for my current study we desperately want a more open flooplan for the kids. I spend alot of time in the kitchen after work (I really enjoy cooking) and being able to interact with the kids, and not have them completely underfoot where they can get hurt, is a huge attraction. They can be in the greatroom, and I in the kitchen, and its not a problem.

The whole idea here was to blend function with form. I'd love to have a great system in a room thats useable everyday. Sure, I can put a dedicted listning room downstairs, but then I'm down there and the family is upstairs. This seperation is not only not healthy for a family, but I think its the main reason my wife currently does not appreciate the Chorus II's... she simply never comes downstairs to hear them. I want the kids to enjoy a good system too.

THAT is why I agreed to the great room. Having balls has nothing to do with it. If one day I decide that I want a HT room, I'll build one downstairs and nothing can/would stop me. The reality is that it would seperate family and would not be used a ton as we don't currently watch that many movies. I watch sports on weekends while the kids are around more than we watch movies. Maybe when the kids get a big bigger that will change.

So from a HT standpoint I want a good system that integrates well into a greatroom. Sonically its going to be a bit bright with hardwood floors. However I will put area rugs down to dampen things a bit. There is a row of windows along one side of the room that look out to the back yard. This is easily taken care of with blackout shades.. and the wife has already agreed to installing these. Shes experienced sunlight on the tv and she at least knows thats not a good thing. I've had a quote where they are installed inside the casings so window treatments can go in as normal.. when they are rolled up wou would enver know they are there.

I had not thought about the k-horns. They actually would fit in the room. To the sides of the fireplace we were thinking of having custom built-ins running floor to cieling. This is where the electronics rack would go, along with knicknacks and books. I could design the shelving around the k-horns..

The current Choruses would have a problem with this since thye need to be off the wall to breath. I assume that since the k-horns are meant to go up against a wall this wouldn't be a problem. Another question... Do the rf-7's need to be far off the wall or could they sit in a small covy slightly sticking out, with the covy large enough to rotate the speakers to toe them in as needed?

[Cal Blacksmith]

Open floor plans are great for some things and bite for others. Our home is a open plan and we only have 2 rooms in addition to the bedrooms and baths. One is a formal living room and the other is family/dining/sewing/kitchen. I tried to setup a ht in the "big room" but the little corner that was the "family room" became too full of hereitage speakers to move in I managed to convince the wife that we should set up the ht in the living room that no one "lived" in! She said ok to a test and now we have 2 Forte 1s, 3 Heresys and a projector in that room and we love it and we get to use a room that we had not spent 24 hours in in the last 15 years!

The 7s are great speakers, not hereatage but great none the less. Too bad the WAF did not play out as planed in your new home. You can blend speakers and function in one room and not turn out so bad. Though the decor is slightly dated and probably will be freshened up some, speakers, ht and living space can be in the same room.

[colterphoto1]

You're better off than you described in your first post then. Question- do you view TV as a family like sitting in front of HT with movies, or just leave the TV on a lot as background entertainment? The basement theatre would work best for dediated movies, a small system in the great room would be nice for playing with kids, cooking and other pursuits- my guess is that a full 5.1 channel is not required here if your attention will be on other activies though. I'd go for a large tv, not projection in the great room. You won't want it totally dark in there every day watching soaps or evening news, will you? Paid a lot for those windows and view, might as well enjoy them as well.

IndyKlipschFan might chime in here. He is getting past a similar situation. I'll let him describe his solution.

[wmilas]

Well its not as bad as my first post suggest I guess. I was perhaps a bit worked up t the time.

Eventually I'll post some pictures of the room. Its basicly rectangular shaped with a fireplace at one of the short ends. The fireplace is in the center of the wall, is stone floor to cieling, and juts out. This leaves 2 alcoves, one on each side of the fireplace. I was planning on putting a plasma above the mantle on the fireplace, or a dlp or plasma in one of the alcoves. From a sound/HT standpoint it makes things much easier to put the plasma over the fireplace as the speakers just naturally fall into place poisition wise around the room. Plus from a stereo listning standpoint this is perfect as I get a soundstage projected right into the center of teh room for stereo listening. If the TV goes into an alcove its going to be tight, plus I'm not sure where the speakers would go as there would be very little room. Plus, my wife likes the idea of having the tv up and out of the way. My concern, and I can't really test it till I get in the room and play with the seating ect, is that the angle of looking up from a sitting position may be too great. The room is large enough that I think I can put the seating far enough away that the angle is not too harsh. This of course requires a large plasma but thats the breaks

Our TV viewing breaks down as such. During the day the kids watch very little tv. They watch pbs for about an hour (Sesame street) and thats about it. Wife watches no tv during the day. When I come home I watch the news as I cook. I currently have a small tv in my kitchen, but with teh new layout this will not be necissary as I'll be able to see the tv from the kitchen. Since I'm cooking and not actively watching it, I don't need to be right on top of it and watching/hearing it from across the room is fine. During dinenr we do not watch tv.

Since I cook, my wife has clean up duty. During this time I usually play with the kids, or they get to watch a kid movie. It currently stands that I need to go downstairs to do this with the kids and the wife stay upstairs and cleans. We are excited that with the new layout: the kids and I will be around interacting with the wife as she cleans . Kids go to sleep, I either retire to the study to read/play with the puter, or I watch tv with the wife. Her habits are the same.

During the weekend the tv is used more. Sporting events, movies, friends coming over, ect. I do most of my music listening on the weekends.

The more I've been thinking about it the more I realize that I really dont listen to music as much as I used to. This is a function of the kids goign to sleep and I not wanting to wake them up. I guess I should listen to the RF-7's and see what they wound like with a good amp. If i can live with them as an acceptable pair of stereo speakers, I'll be fine with them in an HT setup.

[cjgeraci]

You mentioned RF-7s and Klipschorns. RF-7s do need a little bit of room to breathe. They have two large ports in the rear. Need to be at least one feet out from the wall, but two feet out would be better. Klipschorns may be your best option since they will melt into the corners.

The only potential downside with Klipschorns is that once you go there for two-channel in the room, how do you do a wife-friendly center?? Belles are still large, and even a Heresy is larger than your average HT center. Then again, if movies are not watched that often, maybe you do not need a 5.1 - but a nice, wife-friendly two-channel (K-horns).

Hanging a plasma on a wall is a good idea. My wife and I hung our plasma above our fireplace in our main family room. I faced similar WAF issues as you do in your main room. What I ultimately decided to do was to ditch the idea of large mains for my family room - hang the plasma, put the best center I could get away with (RC-7) and supplement with a nice sub, Klipsch bookshelves and nice surrounds. Then again, I do not listen to music that much in that room - only movies and TV (my music area is downstairs: Belles and Altecs). However, if you can get away with RF-7s in that great room, they might surprise you - even musically - and you could pair them up with whatever Reference center you could get away with.

Keep us posted.

Carl.

[colterphoto1]

Based on your latest info, I'd put a massive HT with your Chorus' in the basement for your private music listening without waking anyone and those weekend get togethers. A mini HT in your office for music and sports while working (is this your full-time job office?)Sound's like you've got most of this system already.

Still sounds like the Great Room just needs a nice sized tv for the kiddies and news. 35" with maybe an attached receiver and couple of speakers. You've said nothing at all so far about any critical listening going on in this room. Evening news, and child movies- hardly worthy of Khorns. Your wife and kiddies arent' going to appreciate it, why get into wars over territory?

just my .02.

Michael