What types of adhesives to use for veneering?

[BS Button]

Iron on type______?

Spray on type________?

Roll on type_______?

Finally, what type should be used for the beginner?

I've seen the suggestions about titebond II for iron on, but the directions for iron on are not on the titebond labels? What's up with that?

[filmboydoug]

For an iron-on adhesive heat lock works great..

http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=737

And the folks at joewoodworker.com are great.

[Malcolm]

If the veneer you want is a fairly common one, you can get self adhesive veneer. Just cut to size, remove backing, apply and trim. Downside is it costs more than the traditional stuff.

Otherwise you have many options: hide glue, carpenter's glue, contact cement...

Carpenter's glue works well and is very simple, but you need a veneer press or the equivalent in the way of clamps and cauls to hold everything in place until the glue sets up. And veneers that expand a lot when wet demand special attention.

There is hide glue, the traditional hot melt glue used in veneering. Requires a heated glue pot and a veneering hammer that is not a hammer at all but a tool used to smooth out the glue and veneer by pushing. Some folks nowadays like to do something similar using carpenter's glue or the like that doesn't require the glue pot.

Usually I use contact cement. You can brush it on, roll it on, spray it on, or just pour it on and spread it out with a scrap of wood. Some folks seem to have a problem with the veneer bubbling up or pulling apart at seams. I have never had a problem. The former problem can usually be avoided by following the manufacturer's instructions to the letter and using a lot of pressure on a J-roller to bond the veneer to the substrate. The latter can be avoided by properly taping and gluing the seams. Wiping down oily veeners with acetone may be necessary to get a good bond. If you do get bubbles, applying low heat and pressure with an iron can often fix the problem, assuming there is any glue under the bubble to start with.

I prefer the traditional contact cement with high VOC to the water soluble stuff. However, if the veneer is particularly porous and something other than a water based finish is going to be used, it is sometimes necessary to apply a wash of thinned down carpenter's glue and let it dry to seal the glue side of the veneer before applying the contact cement.

I suggest you get a copy of Constantine's "Veneering Simplified" or another good book before you start.

The instructions for using Titebond II as an iron-on adhesive probably aren't on the label because the manufacturer did not intend for it to be used that way. But interestingly enough, they do recommend it for RF gluing, where the glue is cured by heat generated by subjecting the glue to radio frequency energy.

[WMcD]

Some of the following is applicable to any project.

Very recently I used a 3M 77 spray-on with veneer from Parts Express. It was somewhat of a rush project and is not yet complete. It was in the Caravan at Indy.

Previously I used the smelly brush-on contact cement with Formica type laminate. It works well but is very messy. I tried the water based version which just doesn't have the sticking power. Or maybe it required more care.

I like the spray-on mostly because of the lack of mess. OTOH it requires some care which I've not mastered either. It is clear and thus it is difficult to tell where coverage is complete (the brush on stuff is blue). You do have to spray both surfaces.

I was worried about the end grain of plywood. It can absorb the glue and so needed several coats. I see I didn't use enough and some of the veneer is coming loose. I'll try some super glue to patch it up.

- - - -

There are a host of other issues which I've not yet solved. We'd all like to get professional results the first time. It can't be done. The professionals have gotten to their craft by doing it 100 times.

Some of the issues are:

You should read about using wax paper between the glued ply and the glued veneer to allow you to line it up. Then slip out the wax paper.

You do need a wallpaper roller or the edge of a small board to force the veneer into firm contact with the surface.

A veneer saw is good for trimming. Still, I've had problems with tearout of the veneer grain.

What to put on first: the edging or the main surface. I guess edging last is the best.

In either case, there is a problem with overspray glue on the surface you're not working with just then. It accumulates sawdust.

Glue residue is a problem generally.

= = = =

The most effective glues have nasty organics. Essentially they are airplane glue. So do pay attention to the warnings about ventilation. You owe it to your brain cells. I used the spray on with the garage door open and with a fan running nearby.

= = = =

In a few projects I've gotten better. There is still much to learn.

Let me suggest you do start on scrap wood and portions of the veneer sheet which will be, eventually, left over. Try veneering / glueing / sanding / staining / finishing some 6 inch by 6 inch panels. I learned a lot by just that exercise.

Best,

Gil

[Tom Mobley]

Excellent post Malcolm.

I've used the iron-on Tite-Bond II deal with good success. I was using unbacked raw mahogany veneer. I don't think it's used with the backed veneers.

Contact cement is good, need good ventilation. I couldn't figure how do large pieces till I ran across a comment where a guy laid out a bunch of wood dowels across the piece, laid down the veneer on the dowels, positioned the veneer carefully and started pulling the dowels out, working with a J-roller as he went. I think I can work with that, might try it next time.

EDIT: Gil, we crossed somewhere out on the ethernet. Another excellent post.

[ZAKO]

On contact cement apply two thin coats to EACH surface. Also use wax paper benithe veneer and slip out when veneer is properly aligned. Use roller to press veneer tightly.

[BS Button]

Use the titebond II for iron on?

[Marvel]

Yes, you can use the Titebond for iron on. Almost any PVA glue can work this way. Put glue on both pieces (veneer and cab). Let dry a bit. Line up veneer and use an iron to 'melt' the glues. Use a towel on the veneer to keep from scorching it.

The Heatlock from Joewoodworker would be better for this, but the others also work.

Greg Roberts has done cabinets this way and has posted an article on the technique at the end of one of his restoration pages. I can't find the link right now, so perhaps someone else will post it.

[BS Button]

Iron on, it is.

[greg928gts]

Just a fair warning. I've had a lot of trouble with my last project, the rosewood Khorns. I don't know if the bubbling veneer is from inadequate glueing, poor adhesion due to the oils in the rosewood, the Watco oil finish penetrating and loosening the veneer, or what? I have not tried the Heatlock yet. Got a gallon, but haven't had time to do another project.

Right now, I'm not too keen on the iron-on method.

You asked what was the best for a beginner. I'd say contact cement with backed veneer sheet from Tapeease.

Heresy iron-on veneer page.

Greg