wheelman Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I have to agree with Griff. The point is Behringer is cheap gear bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 12:49:18 AM tigerwoodKhorns wrote: So what EQ do you reccomend in the $450 range? (The Behringer is $250). What improvements can be expected? As far as DAC's, what do you reccomend to coompete with the SAC 2496? (it is $125 - want to use it with MP3's and sattelite radio). Thanks, Chris ---------------- Chris, as far as simple 2-channel DAC's, M-Audio has a very nice 24/96 unit for $200. For $500, the dBx DriveRack would be a major upgrade over the Ultracurve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 12:45:56 AM mikebse2a3 wrote: but I think when you attack someone or something that you know exactly what your talking about. So Griff "please answer" the real question I asked which is have you actually used and spent time with the Behringer DEQ2496 that you seem so determined to run down? mike ---------------- 1) I never attacked anyone in this discussion. I have a very strong opinion about Behringer, based on a lot of personal experience and plenty of anecdotal experience from people I consider my superiors in the music production industry. 2) I have used the Ultracurve, side-by-side with with the Driverack in real-world applications, and the difference in clarity, detail, and just sheer accuracy is worth the extra $200. 3) I still have brains enough to recognize that the Driverack isn't the end-all. There are much nicer offerings by Ashly, Rane, and other companies that do EQ exclusively that would trounce the dBX unit handily. It's rungs on a ladder, sir, and the only point I'm trying to make is that you guys seem to be stuck at the bottom rung, telling me that I'm wrong-headed for trying to show you the rest of the ladder... edit: Emphasis on seem in the last sentence. That's how it looks from my POV. Don't take it personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 You know Grif, every single review I pull up and read about Behringer products from doing Google searches always rates them high. It doesn't matter if they are regular joe-shmoe's or professional reviewers from magazines, they all rate Behringer equipment as excellent values and excellent sound quality. They also rate the reliability fairly high as well. I think that it all boils down to the fact that since you can't figure out how to use a complicated piece of equipment like the FB-D or Ultra Curve, then it must be junk. I think Behringer's problem is you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Why in the world are you letting a couple of guys opinions on gear that they don't even own affect you from enjoying your system and having to justify your purchase. It is just silly, tell them all to get bent! You know what they say about opinions, they are like *******s everybody has one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 7:20:04 AM chops wrote: every single review I pull up and read about Behringer products always rates them high. It doesn't matter if they are regular joe-shmoe's or professional reviewers from magazines, ---------------- Really ... Please show me a review from a Pro Sound site, then will ya .. Whoops .. i meant a GOOD review .......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 1:32:41 AM Griffinator wrote: It's rungs on a ladder, sir, and the only point I'm trying to make is that you guys seem to be stuck at the bottom rung, telling me that I'm wrong-headed for trying to show you the rest of the ladder... edit: Emphasis on seem in the last sentence. That's how it looks from my POV. Don't take it personally. ---------------- I don't think anyone is Really listening , Griff ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 8:06:12 AM DeanG wrote: Nice job on that write up Colin! ---------------- That IS our own Colin reviewing audio gear, isn't it? I wouldn't have put 2+2 together, so thanks for pointing that out Dean! Colin, very well written article. I understood everything. You are exemplary at putting technical explanations in layman's terms. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 7:40:37 AM bsafirebird1969 wrote: I don't think anyone is Really listening , Griff ....... ---------------- No, all I'm getting now is the attack-dog defense from "chops". Time to call this one dead. It's sad that some people feel the need to fire off insults and ad homenim attacks just to make themselves feel better about their choices in equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 7:20:04 AM chops wrote: You know Grif, every single review I pull up and read about Behringer products from doing Google searches always rates them high. It doesn't matter if they are regular joe-shmoe's or professional reviewers from magazines, they all rate Behringer equipment as excellent values and excellent sound quality. They also rate the reliability fairly high as well. ---------------- Here. A rather accurate assessment by a producer friend of mine at Musicplayer.com's forums... The other reason to dislike Behringer is that they appear to engage in an extensive "astroturfing" campaign. Here's how it works: a person posts an innocuous sounding question on the usenet groups, or in bulletin boards just like this one, where they say "gee gosh, I just saw the specs on the behringer xyz product, it looks good, seems the right price. Anyone else have one of these?" And then, a pile of posters chime in about how wonderful the behringer stuff is, how it walks on water, solves world peace, etc. etc., and especially how it replaces stuff costing much more. The net result is a body of writing out there in internet land that shows up in a google search. Try it sometime...search on a behringer product. You see lots of "spontaneous, unsolicited rave reviews" by seeming musicians Just Like You And Me. The idea is that it tends to make the average musician "trust" the review, if it seems to be coming from another regular guy, instead of from a company shill. Unfortunately, it REALLY IS coming from a company shill. My personal experience with behringer products is that they have really musical-sounding "Bypass" functions. The rest of the functions are hardly usable. Once, I was borrowing a bass rig, just plug and play. Couldn't figure out why the sound was SO BAD. Peavey power amp...not great, but not horrible either in that context...good enough speakers...a relatively decent preamp....and a behringer compressor. As soon as I hit the bypass switch on the behringer, the sound opened up and became usable. No fussing with the settings on the comp would satisfy, except bypass. (and rest assured I know my way around a compressor.) dwoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 the DriveRack can be bought for $400, or so... "B stock" , like $350 i like it a hello'lot more ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbley Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 I've never tried any of the Behringer gear's A/D end, but always use the digital inputs, which it looks to me that a lot of the other equipment like the driverack doesn't offer. On the D/A end, the Behringer seems pretty decent. I just did a comparison of my DCX and DEQ analog outputs compared to a Denon 2200. I preferred the Behringer, although the difference was small. I have read reviews that were critical of the Behringer sound when using the analog inputs. Maybe that's where the problems are happening for some. Also, isn't live audio mic. feed much harder on equipment than just playing recordings? I could see how an inferior A/D could fall on it's face with a highly dynamic, unconditioned live signal coming in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Griff, Bsa - I'm listening. Right now, I'm only using the Behringer for my rears, but my two-way Altecs (on the Behringer) are nowhere are sensitive (or as dynamic) as my Belles. After I complete my next Belle upgrade, I may be considering another EQ for my mains, and perhaps, my Center Belle. So, I like keeping an open mind about all of my options. Among the DBX, Rane 30 and Ashley, what is the pecking order in sound quality? I can compare their features side-by-side, but I would appreciate your thoughts on the sound quality of these respective units versus each other - from people that have heard the units (or know those who have)???? Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 DBX, Rane, Alesis, and Ashley are all junk if you want a real home equalizer/RTA look into an Accuphase DG-28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Don´t forget that many people complain about sound quality but it is often due to misuse of the items in question. one common mistake has to do with level matching, these pro units utilize not only balanced XLR connectors but expect different input voltages then consumer sources put out via their RCA plugs, it is not just a connector issue. Hence many people are under-driving the inputs of the crossovers or equalizers resulting in poor sounding results, ESPECIALLY when the EQ or x-over input is feeding a A/D chipset before manipulation, under-driving those chips results in CRAPPY sound. One way to avoid this is to buy a unit that expects consumer levels via RCA plugs, in crossovers the only units I have found that do this are the Yamaha crossovers (hard to find) and the Clairty DEQX (expensive at $3,300). regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 10:24:01 AM sunnysal wrote: Don´t forget that many people complain about sound quality but it is often due to misuse of the items in question. one common mistake has to do with level matching, these pro units utilize not only balanced XLR connectors but expect different input voltages then consumer sources put out via their RCA plugs, it is not just a connector issue. Hence many people are under-driving the inputs of the crossovers or equalizers resulting in poor sounding results, ESPECIALLY when the EQ or x-over input is feeding a A/D chipset before manipulation, under-driving those chips results in CRAPPY sound. One way to avoid this is to buy a unit that expects consumer levels via RCA plugs, in crossovers the only units I have found that do this are the Yamaha crossovers (hard to find) and the Clairty DEQX (expensive at $3,300). regards, tony ---------------- Tony, I understand where you are coming from - especially with level matching. However, one obvious thing (or caveat) that I failed to point out with respect to Dean's, Chris' and my experience with the Behringer is that I believe we are all using our respective units just after a Peach. And each of us reports quality sound by doing so. One thing that may help is that the Peach has adjustable levels for the amount of output signal it is feeding out - so we can adjust that level if we do not like the original results. My only point is that maybe part of our overall positive may be the nice quality of our preamp, and maybe others with different preamps may not have as favorable as experience as we have running after a Peach. Maybe Mike can chime in here because I do not recall what he is running as a pre. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 10:11:03 AM Frzninvt wrote: DBX, Rane, Alesis, and Ashley are all junk if you want a real home equalizer/RTA look into an Accuphase DG-28. ---------------- I'm guessing that means the Accuphase is much higher up the ladder???????? Wow, just looked at the price. That must be on a whole different ladder. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 ---------------- On 7/6/2005 9:13:39 AM Griffinator wrote: My personal experience with behringer products is that they have really musical-sounding "Bypass" functions. The rest of the functions are hardly usable. Once, I was borrowing a bass rig, just plug and play. Couldn't figure out why the sound was SO BAD. Peavey power amp...not great, but not horrible either in that context...good enough speakers...a relatively decent preamp....and a behringer compressor. As soon as I hit the bypass switch on the behringer, the sound opened up and became usable. No fussing with the settings on the comp would satisfy, except bypass. (and rest assured I know my way around a compressor.) dwoz ---------------- Gee, sounds like someone doesn't know how to correctly set up the equipment. I used to use an AUTOCOM PRO-XL MDX1600 for my Klipsch 18" sub with a Carver PM700 amp. Once I had the Noise Gate and Compressor/Limiter dialed in, you could not tell it was there. I also didn't have to worry about distroying the sub or getting that nasty 60 cycle hum coming from the DBX crossover I was using after installing the AUTOCOM. The ULTRA CURVE DSP8000 I'm using now to flatten the room bass response (SVS PB12-ISD/2 sub) helped out tremendously with the overall sound. If you educate yourself properly on the equipment you want to use, then once properly calibrated, you can get excellent results. Of course you're going to quote your "friend's" review and agree with him. As far as I'm concerned, that is not valid proof of anything. And sorry about the "attack-dog" attitude. You just rub me the wrong way! It can't be helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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