Kriton Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 ALright, I know that an SVS and Klipsch thread has been done before, but the questions was asking about the THX subs... I have a line on a local RSW-15 that will fit my RF-'7s but it is used and a little beat, but the price looks to be pretty stellar. However, I have seen and heard about Sunfire's EQ TrueSub, and I dig the size and the reports have been pretty amazing AND I have other Sunfire components...(400~7 and TGIV) BUT, I have also started looking at the SVS subs, and they seem pretty awesome too, at least the reviews are very positive... SO, first, an SVS question...what is it with all of the configurations? Which is better box or cylinder? These things come with additional samson amps that one can buy, and bass modules and equalizers, and lions and tigers, etc...WTH? What is the best configuration for a price point similar to KSW-15? The pictures I have seen of the cylinders appear to be pretty big, at least the mid end, and they remind me of a cat scratching post...and I have three (declawed) cats...anybody have any experience with this? How is the customer service, etc? DO I need the extra amps, and what are they for? Site is huge and configurations endless. Lets assume for this comparison that I don;t need (have room for, or what to pay for) two separate subs. Second, the Sunfire...are either of these three subs (Klipsch, Sunfire, SVS) comparable? Assume that I am going to be listening to 60% movies and 40% music (mostly classical, baroquem, jazz and opera - with some Floyd for the chaser)...Are any one of these subs better for this percentage and subject? Tight, accurate, dead on bass, with potential for awesome bass LFE stuff? OR should I just go with the KSW and leave it at that? It is the wrong color, and has some cosmetic problems but... What do you all think? K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Don't forget the Velodyne Servo's, they have been making subwoofers long before any of the aforementioned manufacturer's even got started building subs. Servo technology allows for the cleanest and deepest distortion free bass well into the teens! No sloppy, woofer barking bass here. All of the subs you listed have their merits though so I would go for the best deal you can get. The RSW-15 will match your RF-7's perfectly, but performance below 30Hz is not stellar. SVS's dig deep and certainly have that slam factor, I have not heard the Sunfire's but I have not heard any negative comments about them. You don't want a KSW-15 - Yuk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriton Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 Ok, dammit, I meant RSW-15, crap I hate not being able to type. Thanks for pointing out my inadequacies. No really. Hmmm...OK, but of the ones I mentioned, what do you think? (assuming that I will check out the Velodyne's too)... Thanks for the reply (you spend why too much time here man)! K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Well, I'll try to answer some of your questions... They say the RSW-15 is best left to rock music, but many use them for movies. Tom Nousaine's sub comparison put the RSW-15 in the top 10, I think, which is very good. I would think a vented (passive radiator) sub would have decent, if not very good, response to 20Hz or below. SVS subs are also vented (most of the time, people prefer vented subs for movies and sealed subs for music). There isn't a better choice between the cylinder or box subs, I don't think. It is mostly a matter of personal preference. I used to like cylinders, but now, I much prefer the box subs. The different subs offered vary by which woofer is in them and how many woofers are in them. The cylinders only have one woofer, while the box subs have as many as four. SVS offers their ISD woofer, which is a budget model, the Plus woofer, which is somewhere in the middle, and the Ultra woofer, which is their best model. They also have a 10-inch model, but I'd say it was out of the question here, given your mains. My personal favorite from SVS is their PB-12Plus/2 in Rosewood finish, which matches two of their Plus woofers with a 900-watt amp. It should perform quite well for movies. Depending on how loud you listen (and how much space you want to devote to a sub), you may prefer their smaller single-woofer boxes with as much as an Ultra driver, or maybe even their massive four-driver box. The Sunfire is a sealed sub that matches high-excursion drivers to a lot of power and EQ. I've heard that they are very musical. I like the concept of the small sub putting out tons of sound. I am also a fan of the servo subs from Velodyne. I am currently torn between the PB-12Plus/2, the M&K 750THX (I think that is the model...) and the Velodyne HGS-X 15. I cannot afford to make a sub purchase at the moment, but these are on my list to choose from. Since you are a fan of classical music, you would probably love one of the servo subs. Their price tag is pretty high, though. I'll go so far as to throw M&K subs out there at you as well. They are a push-pull sealed sub. The push-pull idea is supposed to cancel out distortion and irregularities caused by the driver's suspension. An interesting concept... And, they have a couple of THX models that are promising for great HT performance. For a better recommendation, though, we have to wonder... How loud do you listen to movies and music? What is your budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Simple answer to the differences between Sunfire - Klipsch RSW - and SVS : Sunfire : Smallest size, least bass extension, most expensive in $/db output Klipsch RSW : mid size, mid bass extension, mid priced in $/db output SVS : largest size, most bass extension, lowest cost in $/db output They are very different, it depends what is most important to you... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriton Posted July 7, 2005 Author Share Posted July 7, 2005 Thanks for the reply... In response, I listen at all level ranges...I love to hear the Verdi Requiem Confutatis loud enough to wake the dead, or Nessun Dorma to earsplitting levels...but then I also enjoy put some simple Satie piano, Leontine Price or some good ol baroque violin adagio at low to moderate levels...so my answer is, it depends... (Being a guy) I dig U-571, Terminator, LOTR and every other blockbuster loud as the wife will stand... So, that doesn't help much, right? I would like to keep the price point approximately what a RSW-15 would be, let's say, between $750.00 and $2k...that is a pretty wide margin, and would definitely encompass all of the (midline) subs I have mentioned, I think? K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 First and last SVS be it tubes or classic box the output and sound will not change,as long as the woofer/amp and internal volume/porting are the same. SVS best sub if you do not mind the size.Large ported sub,digs deep plays loud deep.The classic well deigned larger sub. Sunfire,best micro subs.Very compact size,very high excursion woofer mated to a very powerful switching amp in a tiny box. Outstanding output down low for such a minute box.No miracles can be made,the SVS plays louder and deeper. Klipsch RSW subs.Mid sized subs,quite potent woofers mated to proper amps working with a PR.Good output,goes plenty deep for most users and brings slam galore. M&K subs,overpriced hoopla.They do ot have any great output down deep.The push pull qualities ...are ...matched by the RSW's.RSW subs are the better value of the two.The minute gains of the push pull over a well designed non push pull often will not be noticed. Velodyne the HGS series are the cleanest subs below 5K.Good deep bass output,dig plenty deep.The auto EQ takes the guessing game out of the setup.Price will scare a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 I did some quick research a few days ago and found that the Velodyne HGS-X series are around the $2000 mark. The new Velodyne DD series is supposed to be better, though, right? But their prices were MUCH higher from what I saw. I am pretty sure a Velo HGS-X 15 will be my next upgrade (if I ever secure the funding as an unemployed student...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 For those looking at SVS units, I always recommend mocking up a box with the given dimensions, as it's bigger than it sounds. If you are willing to live with it's size, you can go with a SVS PB12 Plus/2 ... but an RSW15 should be fine with those RF7. I don't think the Sunfires are worth it given you are already living with pretty big mains... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 ---------------- On 7/7/2005 4:19:50 PM formica wrote: Simple answer to the differences between Sunfire - Klipsch RSW - and SVS : Sunfire : Smallest size, least bass extension, most expensive in $/db output Klipsch RSW : mid size, mid bass extension, mid priced in $/db output SVS : largest size, most bass extension, lowest cost in $/db output They are very different, it depends what is most important to you... Rob ---------------- That's about as simple as it gets. One of my beefs has always been that people don't appreciate a product for what it is. Take Sunfire for what it is: a microscopic box with great response for it's size, but not in the "best" category and can be expensive. Take Klipsch for what it is: beautiful looking subs with tremendous slam in a modest sized box, but can still be pricey. And SVS: (unless you have the more expensive real wood finishes) it's a hulk. It'll never win a beauty contest but it'll move your house off it's foundation and for very little money. It's all in your priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 ---------------- On 7/7/2005 4:25:37 PM TheEAR wrote: First and last SVS be it tubes or classic box the output and sound will not change,as long as the woofer/amp and internal volume/porting are the same. ---------------- Now now, theear I thought you would be a firm believer in the denser and better made box will be better. As the box is denser and stronger the less likely it will color the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor33 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 If you're comparing boxes to boxes, yes. A tube however would not need as dense of material because it has to endure much less stress than a box because of it's cylindrical design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriton Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 OK, so the one subwoofer driver in a cylinder is as good as two in the box? And what about all of the equalizers, and sampson amps, and all fo the other stuff SVS offers? What is the deal with all fo that stuff, is it necessary, why would you need it, etc? K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 9:58:29 AM Kriton wrote: OK, so the one subwoofer driver in a cylinder is as good as two in the box? And what about all of the equalizers, and sampson amps, and all fo the other stuff SVS offers? What is the deal with all fo that stuff, is it necessary, why would you need it, etc? K ---------------- No. One subwoofer in a cylinder is as good as another in an equal volume box. The type of enclosure is up to you. I prefer the boxes because of the handy dual driver configurations, but if you need to save space or like the look then the cylinders are for you. All the other accessories are optional (unless you buy a passive sub which would obviously need an external amp). An EQ is helpful when your room response (or the sub itself) needs to be tamed to a flatter result. The larger more expensive models come with an onboard EQ. Not necessary for my own use but handy if you feel like using one. I would get an SPL meter, however, to properly calibrate your sub. You can get one from SVS or Radio Shack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 4:33:49 AM bytor33 wrote: If you're comparing boxes to boxes, yes. A tube however would not need as dense of material because it has to endure much less stress than a box because of it's cylindrical design. ---------------- How would it endure less stress, a cylinder? Umm 50 pascals is still 50 pascals in a cylinder tube. The shape is what makes a tube more rigid without more material. Since the radius of a circle is equidistant from the center to the side. A circle's side recieves even pressue. Thus no need for bracing. Since a corner of the box is 1/2 the hypothenus of rectangle (squares are rectangles to) the distance from the center of the box to the midpoint of a side is closer. (A squared times B squared = C squared) Thus the sides need bracing since they are first to recieve pressure (flexing). Also the corners need no bracing since they are theorectically braced by the other side. But since the corner has to deal with the mass of the sides, they are thus weaker. Again they recieve stress in three dimensions. L X W X H but since a circle has no corners it is not weaker. Also that is a short reason why circles are stronger then boxes but that is not it. But simply stated, which holds more volume per give space? A box, since a cylinder volume is pi*r(squared)* height. But a cylinder recieves equal amounts of pressure as with a box but the cylinder recieves equal pressure per surface while a box does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/8/2005 10:22:08 AM Jay481985 wrote: ---------------- On 7/7/2005 4:25:37 PM TheEAR wrote: First and last SVS be it tubes or classic box the output and sound will not change,as long as the woofer/amp and internal volume/porting are the same. ---------------- Now now, theear I thought you would be a firm believer in the denser and better made box will be better. As the box is denser and stronger the less likely it will color the music. ---------------- Wrong,a cylinder like the one used by SVS and HSU will not add audible colorations when compared to a box cabinet.I simply do not like cylinder shaped subs,the boxes are easy to stack and are more stable than cylindic cabinets stacked one atop the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 5:51:27 PM TheEAR wrote: ---------------- On 7/8/2005 10:22:08 AM Jay481985 wrote: ---------------- On 7/7/2005 4:25:37 PM TheEAR wrote: First and last SVS be it tubes or classic box the output and sound will not change,as long as the woofer/amp and internal volume/porting are the same. ---------------- Now now, theear I thought you would be a firm believer in the denser and better made box will be better. As the box is denser and stronger the less likely it will color the music. ---------------- Wrong,a cylinder like the one used by SVS and HSU will not add audible colorations when compared to a box cabinet.I simply do not like cylinder shaped subs,the boxes are easy to stack and are more stable than cylindic cabinets stacked one atop the other. ---------------- On 7/7/2005 4:25:37 PM TheEAR wrote: First and last SVS be it tubes or classic box the output and sound will not change,as long as the woofer/amp and internal volume/porting are the same. ^^^^ you wrote that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 VS Velodyne.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 12:34:04 PM Jay481985 wrote: Since a corner of the box is 1/2 the hypothenus of rectangle (squares are rectangles to) the distance from the center of the box to the midpoint of a side is closer. (A squared times B squared = C squared) Thus the sides need bracing since they are first to recieve pressure (flexing). Also the corners need no bracing since they are theorectically braced by the other side. But since the corner has to deal with the mass of the sides, they are thus weaker. Again they recieve stress in three dimensions. L X W X H but since a circle has no corners it is not weaker. ---------------- huh? Hypotenuse of a rectangle?? Corner has to deal with the mass of the sides?? Three dimensions are L, W, and H??? Arcs and circles gain their strength through their geometry, where the normal force (perpendicular the material's surface) can be transferred symmetrically to the arc's strong axes (in 2 dimensions for a cylinder BTW). I don't think it was the point of the original post though... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 ---------------- On 7/9/2005 9:58:29 AM Kriton wrote: OK, so the one subwoofer driver in a cylinder is as good as two in the box? And what about all of the equalizers, and sampson amps, and all fo the other stuff SVS offers? What is the deal with all fo that stuff, is it necessary, why would you need it, etc? ---------------- They try to make their units as flexible as possible... kinda like buying a basic car and having the choice of not only the exterior colour, but the choice engine and suspension. Active subwoofer: includes a box (or tube), woofer and amplifier Passive subwoofer: includes a box (or tube), woofer BUT NO amplifier A passive unit gives you the option of choosing your own amp, which can be useful if you already have one, or can allow you to upgrade a portion at the time. Most subwoofers available today are "active"... and don't require an external amplifier. The use of EQ with subwoofers is principally to help correct the effects room reflections (resonances) can have on bass frequencies. These are very real, and easily measured... but this is a subject for an entirely different thread. I think all subwoofers can benefit from a properly set up EQ, and isn't exclusive to SVS. They are offering these Eqs as I guess they feel that their target clientele are more than just your casual audio buyer. Later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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