Re-staining Oak speakers to factory black?

[jfcarbel]

I have only been able to find reasonably priced KLF-20's in OAK. But I want them in Black, but was wondering if the KLF-20 Black are actually just the same Oak version but stained with dark black stain.

If this is the case I could just buy the OAK and stain them black.

Just wondering if this is possible and if they will look the same as the factory black.

Has anyone done this or can someone at Klipsch confirm that the BLACK are the same as the OAK speaker just stained differently.

This message has been edited by jfcarbel on 09-17-2001 at 01:59 PM

[ShapeShifter]

jfcarbel,

You may want to place a call to Klipsch Tech Support, 1-800-KLIPSCH. Trey Cannon or other Tech Rep could certainly tell you if there's a diff between Oak & Black KLF's. I'm sure they'd also be able to tell you what type product was used for black stain or paint finish.

Wes

[dougdrake2]

Disclaimer: I am not responsible for how this turns out if you use this information.

jfcarbel - My understanding is that the black speakers are many times other finishes that did not pass QC and were sent back and repainted black, and I think it is black paint rather than stain. I think it may be "30 sheen black lacquer."

DD2

This message has been edited by dougdrake2 on 09-17-2001 at 06:03 PM

[jfcarbel]

Doug you are correct about the color. Tech support called me back and told me the exact same color - 30 sheen black lacquer.

But is this a paint or a stain (someone at klipsch, please confirm)? I know that many wood speakers are stain using an oil based stain. I am not familiar with 30 sheen black lacquer. Is this something I can buy at the local Menards or Home Center?

Also is this an easy enough job for a DIY who can follow directions, or should I pay to have them professionally refinished and what would something like this cost for both speakers?

Thanks - Jeff.

This message has been edited by jfcarbel on 09-18-2001 at 12:41 AM

[dougdrake2]

I believe lacquer would be paint rather than a stain. You may be able to find it at a warehouse store like HD or Lowe's, but if not then a specialty paint store or perhaps an auto paint outfit, in a spray can. I am going to refinish my black Chorus's this way, using a very very fine sand paper, then a few practice runs on the bottom.

DD2

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[jerohm]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jfcarbel:

Doug you are correct about the color. Tech support called me back and told me the exact same color - 30 sheen black lacquer.

But is this a paint or a stain

Thanks - Jeff.

---

Lacquer is Lacquer, and Certainly NOT stain. Good luck finding it unless you are going to use your own spray equipment. Rustoleum SATIN Black #7777 is Enamel, but will produce the desired results (with patience). BTW, Lacquer and Enamel are both paints, but with different characteristics. Lacquer dries extremely fast and allows quick multi-coat applications. Enamel is somewhat harder to work with, but more common. I bought no less than 8 different 'Blacks' before coming up with this sheen as a match. Take my word, use #7777.

We ARE talking SEVERAL light coats with a complete drying (24 hours or better more) after the second to last coat. Use 0000 steel wool or/and wet sandpaper 400 - 600 grit. Clean all surfaces of residual and apply ONE last coat. Steel wool particles tends to stick in the wood grain and to the MAGNETS. Mask and clean with care. Count on using 3, 12oz cans per speaker and be religious about cleaning the nozzle after every coat.

This message has been edited by jerohm on 09-18-2001 at 03:45 AM

[jfcarbel]

I did find a place that sells the 30 sheen black lacquer on the internet.

But I am not sure home many coats to apply.

Also should I paint with a brush or spray on the lacquer? I don't have a spray gun, but assume these can be rented from the local hardware store.

[dougdrake2]

Thanks for the input, Jerohm. BTW, how many coats would you say constitutes "several?"

DD2

[T2K]

I don't know anything about lacquer paint.I have used lacquer paint.You might educate yourself about paints,and the paint that I BELIEVE Klipsch uses,by doing a search on Lilly Industries.I don't believe you BUY a 30-sheen lacquer,I think you MIX a 30-sheen lacquer.As I said I don't know what I'm talking about.

I have used gloss black lacquer for projects and sprayed several coats and buffed down the final coat with 0000 steel wool.The steel wool knocked down the shine to a sheen and the project was a success.It was not however a pair of speakers.

The best results I have had involved going to my local dealer and buying another pair of black Klipsch speakers.Hope this helps and good luck.

Keith

EDIT:And with all due respect to anyone else's opinion here I would absolutely NOT use steel wool on the very open grain oak veneer Klipsch uses on their speakers.

The residue will be very hard to remove from the grain.

This message has been edited by talktoKeith on 09-18-2001 at 11:53 AM

[jerohm]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dougdrake2:

BTW, how many coats would you say constitutes "several?"

DD2

---

That depends on the 'lightness' of your coats. This time of year is great to spray paint (low humidity and all). You could easily do 5 to 8 very light coats or even more. The trick is not to drip... then you got problems; and not to be in a hurry between coats. The wet sanding and/or steel wool smoothes out the texture which is rough to the touch when you use a lot of very light coats. If the sanding reveals the wood... you don't have enough coats. The final coat is meant to even out the color/finish. The only spray lacquer I could ever find was gloss. The rustoleum SATIN is MUCH better and available at HD and elsewhere. 3 cans were needed per Forte II, with some left over... don't be cheap. Just a hint, when you spray, start spraying BEFORE you contact the speaker, spray the same direction in even stokes, and don't release the spray until you are way from the surface. As expected, the application of the final coat is the most important (so EXPECT and be willing to waste paint).

[jfcarbel]

"We ARE talking SEVERAL light coats with a complete drying (24 hours or better more) after the second to last coat."

jerohm, from the above statement how much time should be adequate between each coat to dry? I know that you say before the second to last coat let it dry 24hrs, but just wondering about those first 5-6 coats.

When you say, "Mask and clean with care", what do you mean by "mask"?

Thanks for all the great info!

[WMcD]

If I may offer some educated guesses.

If you go out and buy a specific lacquer, you're going to have to rent a spray gun and compressor, learn how to use it, and clean it. Quite a project.

This is the natural circumstance of amateur work. In the sense that we're willing to take on a new project, for the love of, with little or no previous experience. Regardless of interest or devotion, every project is a prototype, learning experience, and final project. So there is little learning curve unless you experiment.

Lacquers are used in industry for two reasons.

One, the "vehicle" is very volatile and dries quickly. I think acetone, toluene and xylene, mostly.

Second, it is a "solvent release" mechanism in curing. It gets hard because the solvent evaporates. It will soften if you apply the solvent. An implication is that a second coat "melts" the underlying coat to form a somewhat uniform interface at the surface between the first, and second, and third coat. The bottom line is that you build up a continuous structure.

Shellac does the same. Alcohol is the solvent or vehicle for the polymer stuff, which is actually the body of the lac bug. Really.

In contrast, varnishes have a chemical process of curing, or polymerization, after exposure to oxygen. So individual coats rely upon scoring (sanding) for adheasion. Same with most paints.

You have experienced brush-on lacquers in small amounts. It is nail polish. You'll note that young ladies build up layers quickly. They can remove it with acetone, which is nail polish remover. And it has a good sheen.

If you want to spray lacquer, you should consider a spray can of Krylon, but in the original formulation. Not the environmentally friendly stuff.

It is not necessary to sand between coats. They melt together. You may want to buff out the last coat. Though the grain of oak may make this difficult.

One issue is whether it give a good result over the finish which is alread on the oak, which is probably varnish. "Oiled" is a thin varnish. I'll check some books and let you know.

I'd think this is a project that can be accoumplish in the garage, with some care. Mask off all parts except what you're lacquering. Dull down the present finish with Scotch bright. Remove dust with a tack rag, from HD.

It might go well if you put the speakers on their backs. Then you're spraying on verticle surfaces. With thin coats, it might get it done. But this can lead to drips and sags.

However, I'd suggest that you exercise some patience. Set each side horizontal, spray, wait the drying time, put on a second and third coat. It will take a consecutive series of 10 minute steps spread over a week end.

One additional suggestion is to not make the speakers a first experiment. Try applying black Krylon to some piece of small furniture from the Salvation Army, basement, or the like. That way you build up experience before the big project.

Regards,

Gil

[Marty65]

Hey Jeff, Have you tried the Tweeter store in Mt. Prospect Illinois the last time I was in there they had KLF-20 in black and for a good price. There phone number is 847 259-2600

Dan

[SteveLee]

If you're comfortable with uBid, you might check them out:

http://www.ubid.com/cat/get_cat_page.asp?CatID=1226

They've had KLF-20's off and on for a few months now. Seem to cycle between Oak, Mahogany, and Black every week or so. Going prices seem to be between about $250 and $350 each (plus about $80/each S&H). With some patience, you might get a black pair at a good price, and not have to worry about refinishing them .....

[dougdrake2]

Thanks to all of you for the input. I'll be looking at this project in October/November, once the garage gets below 95-100 degrees!!!

[Q-Man]

My Two Cents

You do have to sand between the first coat, and sometimes the second coat when using Lacquer. It will raise the grain in the wood & that needs to be sanded. Unless, you use one or two coats of sanding sealer first.

Lacquer will require spray equipment.

I've also used Rustoleum Satin Black #7777. It is a good match. It can be sprayed or brushed on. Spraying is better,but you have to do what you have to do.

I've also mixed the Satin Black with a little Gloss Black for a little more sheen.

Q.

------------------

Q-Man

[jfcarbel]

Thanks for all your input.

I was very lucky though, found the last pair tweeter had in black at Mt Prospect Store (Dan I actually purchased them first and then saw your tip). Dan are you the guy I sold my Academy or Heresys to?

Better yet they were a floor model and I got them for $800 for the pair. Not a single scratch on them and everything in excellent condition. They sound great. Also got a KLF-C7 off ubid for $295 shipped. Then picked up an Onkyo 696 at Abt for $615 + tax. Not too bad - I'm very happy.

Now I am going to demo the RS-7 surrounds and see how well they mix with the Legend series.

Hope this informative thread helps many who want to restain Klipsch speakers. Great Info from you all!

Thanks, Jeff

This message has been edited by jfcarbel on 09-21-2001 at 12:09 AM

[Marty65]

Hi Jeff, Yes I'm the one that bought your Heresy's. Haven't got them set up yet as surround speakers. Glad you were able to get them from Tweeter.

Dan

[kenoarto]

I love my KG4s, but my TV viewing is seriously impared. Any inexpensive shielding fixes?