damonrpayne Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hey all you builder guys, the following appears to be the result of seating my 22' beam a little rough. What is the proper way I should force this to be repaird? ie, if they just try to patch it with mortar is that OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOOTERDOG Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 I would force the issue and have it repaired. For the amount of money you have spent it would be wise to have it fixed. It may be ok for now but what happens after the house settles. I would be concerned. Looking at it, it would not take much for it to be removed and replaced with a new block. It almost seems as if it may have been a defective block for it to crumble like that. Have it replaced. scooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Have a small steel beam mounted against the concrete block wall that supports the interecting cross "I" beam, you should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted September 5, 2005 Author Share Posted September 5, 2005 How big a deal is this, scale of 1 to 10? I only ask because if they say they are not replacing the block it costs me another $750 every time I take them to arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Gee imagine what it'll do when the weight of the WHOLE HOUSE sits on that beam, do ya think the wimpy wall of the block or a little mortar will hold it then? I like JacksonBart's idea that there should be a pocket or lintel of sorts to spread that load over. (Lintel is like a 4-6 block long single solid block, used over window openings and the like, you probably have a few in your basement already.) Are you kidding me? You have to pay to go to arbitratrion for something simple like this? These guys are idiots! Have they ever built a house before? Who is your building subcontracting the work to? I feel for ya man. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Get the building inspector out there this is not going to hold the weight of the house.Basement walls should be concrete ..not block walls.Are there other houses in your area with block wall basements?I would say run away from this builder and run fast.Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 Yes block basements are very common around here. I will send my inspector out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayoVac Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Around here... you NEVER see a beam supported on block wall like that. The proper way if this is truly a loading bearing object and not just a an add-on to quite bouncing floors... is to have a support column poured all the way down to the footer!!!! The beam rests on that. The alternative is a floor level poured support (again joining the footer) that has a steel jack post that then supports the beam. And of course there would be posts every 6-8 feet or specified by the beam support load specs. I would not ***** about the busted up block... more importantly what is the purpose of the beam... if carrying the load for walls supporting a second story or other HEAVY objects... if it rests on your 4" poured crawl space floor... you are gonna have some problems. Call your local building inspector and have him review the intended purpose and install of the beam. Also find out who makes the beam and what its load carrying specs and support needs are. Good Luck!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 Here is my shorter beam showing the footings and vertical support rod. You cannot see it in this picture but I believe the other side is resting right on the blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 I can't tell from those images what your load requirements will be, if your blocks are filled or hollow, or if they have a lintel beam to rest the beam on. For example, the top coarse on the second picture is filled.- If the blocks are hollow... tell them that it'll bug the cr@p out of you if they leave it like that. Ask, nicely, if they can fill them up (at least the three surrounding cavities) with mortar and a rebar. A couple bags of mortar and rebar should cost well under 100$. Offer to supply the material if they don't realy want to do it.- If they are already filled or there are lintel blocks across, a repair with some non-shrink structural grout should do. This shouldn't be reason for arbitration... you got to try to work with them.Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 RayoVac has it right. Damon, first, my experience in construction is as a residential remodeler, not a builder. However my Father was a structural engineer and I do have some theoretical knowledge in this area. You might need to consult with your local building commission to see if they have details available on how this load should be carried in your area. Codes will vary from place to place, but the local code is the MINIMUM STANDARD. If it were my home, items such as this would be designed well above that standard. Remember, all loads must eventually find the earth, ie the footers under the block walls. The block walls should not be set on a 4" slab itself. Generally, in our area, footers are poured first, then the walls built, then the floor is poured within the walls. This may vary in your area. The roof weight bears down on walls and some interior walls and floor systems bear part of the house load also. I dare say that an I-beam of this size is carrying the ends of floor joists, so at least the weight of occupants, furniture and fixtures, floor system and interior walls is being carried by the beam. Possibly some of the roof and snow load if any interior walls in this area are load-bearing. This beam is only as strong as what supports it. Having it placed on crumbly concrete blocks and mortardoes not appear to be a viable solution. I imagine that you might have asked for a larger beam so that no supporting posts would interfere with your HT area. That is fine SO LONG AS THERE IS AMPLE SUPPORT for the beam at both ends. This does not appear to be the case as the block wall wouldn't even support the weight of the beam itself. Block in that area should be reinforced with rebar, poured solid with concrete, and a lintel set along the top course of block to spread the weight along a wider section of wall. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Yes looks like your going to have a pole right in the middle of the room at this point.. Hope you realized this as well.. I agree side supports...middle support when they hook/ bolt the steel beam together too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 I will not have a pole in the middle of the room, note where the footings have been poured for the vertical beams. I paid a lot extra for my stronger beams (longer span without needing the vertical one) and my higher walls. I went out and looked when I got off work today and the blocks do seem to be filled where the beams will rest. I called the city building inspector to look at it today, if he says its OK then its going to have to be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 Oh, to answer Michael's comments: Code here requires that the blocks are reinforced with steel bars all over the place; I'm no concrete dude but it looks to me like the damage to the wall was caused by "dropping" the beam, not just seating it there. My 2nd vertical support is not on the site yet, so whoever delivred the steal beam likely broke my wall. I hear you guys, thanks for the advice, and I've got the appropriate people checking it. If they **** up my movie room I will cry, then sue, then cry some more, then sell this house, then embark on the greatest slander campaign the world has ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Have them put rebar in that area, then fill those blocks, then let is set up for a couple of days minimum to gain strength before they CAREFULLY sit that beam in place. You should be okay, it's just that these guys seem to be jacking around every step of the process. Lets hope the framers and drywall finishers are better grade. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 The walls are stick built by someone in a factory else and then shipped to the site where it's framed up. So, that's one thing not managed by my builder. I already hate these guys and there is a long way to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 First off, the contractor should have constructed masonry pilasters at each end where they support the beam. Did he construct the pilasters? And what size are they (width and height)? How are they reinforced? Per code, the vertical reinf. in a pilaster must have ties, did he provided them? Also, the contractor should have installed an steel embed for the beam to bear on. I don't see one, where is it, because it's required by code (ACI 530). The contractor will also have to place some non-shrink grout beneath the embed to provide a uniform bearing surface. Did the contractor provide any horizontal masonry joint reinforcing? Many crappy home building contractors will blow it off, and let it be your problem a few years down the road..... I could go on and on, but there's alot more information I'd need to know. How deep are your basement walls, how much backfill will be placed against them? What is the typical vert. wall reinf. size and spacing? Were your wall foundations designed, or is he just doing it the way he's be building them for the past 20years....yadayadayada, typ. contractor. What drainage previsions have been incorporated on the fill side of the wall? What is he going to use for waterproofing on the vertical face? What is he going to use for fill? Will you have a mud slab, you probably should if moisture is even the slightest concern. I could on, and on with this. What ever you do, don't rely on the city inspector, 99.999% of them suck. They don't even know what's required by code. Unless your home is built in CA, OR, WA, AZ, or MD odds are, your city inspector is a moron. Structural design is my specialty, my love, and my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 OK, I just got off the phone with the building inspector. He seems to think this is a completely acceptible practice (setting the beams on filled blocks) and he has never known of any issues with it. I'll have to put it to bed for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 From07-21-2005, 7:51 PM colterphoto1 Joined on 11-06-2002 INDY- home of KLIPSCH Posts 4,984 Re: Poll: When will I move into my new house? Bad omens all, get a new builder NOW. Just my .02.Michael- I know just enough about building a home that I could never hire it done, I would KILL THEM ALL before it was done.... The 'House of Klipsch'From my post 7/21/05. Sorry for your troubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 I understand Michael, but my contracts were signed long before then. I know I'm in for an interesting ride still. As I've said many times, my vengeance is already planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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