n2dablue Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Hello All, I have been a good bit of a lurker here for a year or so, and hopefully it wont be held against me too much, but I could use a bit of advice. I just picked up a what seems to be a good deal on a set of Fortes off of EBay. You can see them here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=5804347558 The seller seems to be a good guy, but just as the ad says, he wants to ship them via a company called "Creighters and Freighters" which just quoted him $359 shipping (crated obviously) from near Dallas TX to near Seattle WA. All of a sudden I didn't get such a good deal. The seller wants to avoid UPS/FedEx/DHL due to risk of damage. I have had KG4s shipped via UPS before and they arrived in perfect condition, and come to think of it, I dont think I have ever encountered shipping damage in my life (knocking on wood). Should I try to talk him into shipping via UPS/FedEx/DHL? If the speakers were mint I wouldn't think twice before shelling out the extra $$, but as you can see from the picures the cabinets are nearly ready for some TLC already, and I am already thinking of restoring anyway. Advice / sharing of experiences would be appriciated. Thanks in advance. Paul Larson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Your the buyer . Tell them you want them idividualy packaged and boxed , and shipped with UPS or whoever . Crating Fortes ? Beat up ones at that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I would avoid the general commonly used carriers such as UPS. Having 'charged' there during college, I can say that their operation simply isn't designed to handle such packages. And going to a third party such as your 'friends' have gone simply sounds like they are just another layer of middle man who will package the speakers for a nice markup and simply send them via one of the major carriers... I would recommend 2 superior alternatives, with one being much more highly recommended. The first is a freight consolidator. A quick web search will bring up quite a few. They can provide you with alternatives that you can explore yourself with where they are simply adding your freight to a truck - perhaps a moving van or other freighter. Your package can be palletized and you can specify if you want it top loaded, not stacked, etc. Generally you will save some money and get better handling. http://www.freightquote.com/ The last option wins hands down with me. I would contact Forward Air. These folks specialize in shipping motorcycles and other high value 'unusual' loads. You pack your package and palletize it (they can help you) and they then fill a container. So what you are doing in renting space in a container. You can also specify 'top load only' as well as 'no stack' as appropriate. These guys are good and very affordable. Also, something that would be wonderful here on this forum is: I suspect someone here has a company that already has an account with them. If you establish an account the subsequent shipping will be about half of what you normally pay! And all you have to do is provide the account number and your freight is simply paid for cash (the account can specify this to avoid anyone getting stuck with an unpaid bill!) and added to their volume. It would sure be nice if we could use the account to add our volume and have everyone win! As their cost goes down with the increased volume and we would benefit from attractively priced quality shipping for fragile equipment! https://www.forwardair.com/prepaid/MCmainpage.jsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 They are a little worn and in need of tlc, but the corners aren't bashed in, YET. I only purchase Klipsch speakers that I can personally pick up. I have great lengths to secure Heritage Klipsch speakers. The amount of damage that can be caused by inadequate packaging and a single 'drop' is astounding. I think paying the outrageous amount for crating make the purchase economically ridiculous. Shipping by any common carrier puts your purchase at great risk. That's why I never do either, personally. Is there a family member or Forum friend nearby who can claim them for you until you can make a trip to collect them. Currently I am holding a pair of speakers for a member in Pennsylvania. We plan to meet in Cleveland if fuel prices stabilize. That is the length that I personally will go to in order to protect this precious cargo. But then I'm crazy. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Just checked, we've got people in Dallas. Put a shout out to Forum members. Bet someone will come to your aid in this. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Creighters and Freighters are full service packers and shippers. They come and pick up the items, pack and bind to a pallet and ship common carrier. It is expensive, but about the only way something as large as a laScala or Khorn could be shipped. Expensive, but well done. OTOH, in your case, smaller and CAREFULLY packed speakers can be shipped AND survive the FedUP or UPS gorillas just fine. They need a minimum of three inches styro all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I've been curious about ForwardAir's shipping containers (seen in dragonfyr's link above). Seems they'd be good for large speakers. You'd have to still palletize and protect/brace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Forward Air has Really raised thier prices in the last year C & F ....well, they'll be packed right ... on a pallet, probably in Cardboard .. don't fall for the Crate crap ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Shipping speakers the size of Fortes on a pallet is not a bad idea. Crating them is even better. I have shipped computer systems (real computers, not PCs) around the world. Properly crated (totally enclosed, plywood on the outside, two inches of foam all around, on a pallet), when they get to the other end, you just unpack, cable, power up and they work. Just putting similar gear on pallets for a 1000 mile trip was not always as successful. One system showed up with one rack having all the exterior panels dented and needing replacement. It is possible to pack speakers in boxes in such a manner that the outsides will survive a trip through FedEx or UPS. But there is some likelihood that things will come loose internally because of the way things get shunted around during sorting. OTOH I've had lots of Heresys come and go via UPS, USPS and similar companies come through totally unscathed except one which had the crossover network come loose. If I have a choice of one of the traditional package services, I will choose USPS. Packages don't seem to receive as rough treatment as from the alternatives. I would be particularly careful with anything that had cabinets made out of MDF. The corners are particularly vulnerable. And components attached with screws are more likely to come loose. If the speakers are big enough, sometimes it pays to buy ones you can pick up yourself, even if the initial price is more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Forward Air has Really raised their prices in the last year C & F ....well, they'll be packed right ... on a pallet, probably in Cardboard .. don't fall for the Crate crap ... Duke, I was just quoted $200 for a pair of LaScalas from San Diego to Dallas; insured for $1000. Palletized, no stack, top load only. I defy anyone to top that with the quality of service they offer. What is amazing to me is that everyone has these terrible tales of woe from shipping UPS and the other common carriers and we simply keep doing it! It is sort of like listening to all those who keep buying expensive electronics or speakers on EBay the traditional way instead of using www.escrow.com and crying that they didn't get what they paid for and have no recourse because the seller was disreputable, blah, blah, blah! Now I am not making light of the tragedy! What I am making light of is our failure to modify our behavior in such a way as to learn from our mistakes. And as such, all I can do is shake my head with each sad story and utter "the damned fool!...When will they learn!?" After all, isn't the clichéd definition of insanity 'to keep doing things the same way while expecting a different outcome'!? But, by all means feel free to ship UPS or FedEx and take your 50/50 chance of getting them in relatively good shape! Or, you can take another route, even if it costs more but insures better care! Let's think this through for a second! What is the real value of paying say $50 more if there is no damage and no claim and you aren't left with damaged or scarred merchandise???? So, if you are not willing to use the more reliable methods in both paying and evaluating equipment up front with escrow, and if you are not willing to use superior shipping services, don't be surprised if you don't receive consolation for inviting the tragedy upon yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 well, Forward Air has doubled the price of Motorcycle shipping ... they used to do it, Terminal> terminal $200- $259 ... now they want like $500 .. Totall Bummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 With all due respect to everyone, this is a topic that simply seems to perpetually go in circles and ultimately goes nowhere. "Oh, the price is lousy and it arrives in umpteen pieces", or "Oh, the price is a little lousier and it arrives undamaged". You have a simple choice: You can go with a quality shipper who is proficient shipping the types of large fragile packages that you are sending and pay for the quality of service, or you can still pay far too much for service that leaves you with damaged goods and a lousy story. As far as I am concerned, you can either assume some responsibility and do it right, or enjoy the laughter when you come back with the whiny "I'm a victim" lament. But I am confident that we can drag this thread on for at least 4-5 more pages and progress no further! Perhaps we should consider combining shipping complaints with cable debates. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feersum dreadnot Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I've had an Academy send up from MD to CT via UPS, and a pair of Fortes sent from WA to CT, all three speakers by UPS. the fortes were ~$45 each for x-country shipping. one was in the original box, the other had some creative packaging, as the box was missing. both came through just fine. proper packing and insurance to cover them, just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 If your seller is cooperative, you might want to see if they can remove the bases for shipping and put some protection over the woofers and PRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2dablue Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 One thing the seller did mention early on is that he was not opposed to exploring other options such as greyhound or baxglobal. Has anyone tried to ship via greyhound before? Their website says that they handle oversized and heavy weight freight. I got quoted for just under $100 per speaker. I wonder if its safer than UPS.... Thanks for all the input, everyone! Sorry, I didn't mean to start another cable/interconnect war! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 ANYTHING .... is Safer than Universal Package Slammers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Nah, you didn't start a war. Don't let one twit with more words than sense discourage you from posting. This is a topic that affects many of us. It is good to get new input from time to time, even if things haven't changed much since the last time it was discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 This seemingly endless debate about UPS and large heavy packages is ridiculous! So I find myself standing up on a soapbox ranting to the folks who simply keep doing things the same way, experiencing the same damage over and over again while the cries are occassionaly interrupted by someone saying they sent cookies and they weren't all smashed! Has anyone here had the misfortune to work for UPS in a hub unloading, sorting or charging? ...Especially between Thanksgiving and New Years!!!!!!!!!!!!! Has anyone watched as the solid metal block intended to be machined at it's destination machine shop comes down the charging slide immediately after the daintily packaged box of grandma's cookies with the oh so dainty writing saying "Fragile: Cookies" on the sides!? Has anyone seen the buckling of the packages like converging Arctic ice flows on the conveyors as they feed the already overflowing charge slide?Its simple physics people! You know, that same fisiks stuff that confounds everyone about the audio stuff! Two items cannot occupy the same space at the same time. But they come damned close to accomplishing this!So use a containerized service that does NOT! Once in the container, they don't get handled individually! They don't get smashed by all the other competing packages! So with the conventional carriers you may be fortunate in having an exceptional package (which a speaker or large amplifier most definately is!) get through undamaged! For packages of the size and weight we are speaking of, that is an exception! And I am not complaining about UPS or FedEx or any of the services! They are simply NOT DESIGNED TO HANDLE THEM!What does it take!?Any large or heavy item is an exception! Their system is simply NOT designed to accommodate it!The young kid CANNOT pick up and carefully set a LaScala down! The sorter CANNOT carefully pick it up and sort it to the correct belt, especially if it is above shoulder height! And charging it - it won't fit into the carousel cage either! It exceptions out, along with the truck and tractor tires, muffles and assorted other strange amalgomation of stuf that it gets loaded onto a cart with after it has been manhandled into a pile.So all of you can keep sending the stuff UPS!!! And you can keep being amazed! And if you do, you had BETTER at the very least double box it with solid foam fill (the expanding type) between the boxes with a spacing of about 5 inches on all sides.The problem with shipping UPS isn't the mean spirited slave labor they utilize (if you have worked there you KNOW what I am referring to!)! It doesn't matter how you label the box. It doesn't matter how nicely you smile when you drop off the package, it doesn't matter how much you yell at the claims clerk when you file your claim for damage!YOU ARE SIMPLY USING THE WRONG TOOL FOR THE JOB!Go freight with a reputable firm who has a proven history or used containerized shippers specializing in valuable fragile gear such as Forward Air.Just as some who think that resistance and something measured in ohms is sufficient to understand the effects of impedance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Speakers belong on a Pallet ... the only problem is ....frequently, the use the forks to push stuff around.............. and not to carefully, either .... i'd still go truck .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Yep, even palletized isn't foolproof. I saw some IBM exhibit gear in an expensive, custom shipping case get wiped out at Comdex one time. Forklift driver was going flat out trying to get everything moved around in time. He was doing fine until he miscalculated and put his forks all the way through, instead of under, the case. Didn't phase him a bit. He pulled out, lowered his forks to where they should have been, picked up the case, delivered it and left without a word. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Proper insurance is always a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.