dragonfyr Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Hey Dragon, I can't figure out which side of the fence your on regarding liking that particular pro amp or not...[] Ok, you asked for it![][][][6][6][6] I get a kick out of the "I can't listen to a SS amp! It's just too traumatic!!" crowd! I have ridiculously expensive tube and SS gear, and well designed amps in both camps are fine! But then I have also listened to records on less then a $20K turntable and survived! (maybe the fact that I am deaf in one ear and suffering from severe tinnitus in the other has something to do with this?? You think??[] Heck, I am also the weirdo who has worn custom Etymotic ear plugs for almost 20 years of live pro-sound work!, so you know I'm weird!) But I will admit that the reduced care and feeding of the SS amps make them extremely attractive! Especially if you are looking for anything other then flea sized tube amps! And don't forget to factor in the maintenance costs of two matched quartets of 6L6GCs or 6550s, not to mention Gold Lion KT66s or KT88s! Especially as so many of the "I can't listen to a SS amp" crowd won't be caught with anything less then some exotic, increasingly difficult to find, very expensive version of the tubes! Oh,but I guess I am even weirder, as my tubes occassionally require replacement unlike others who maintain they never need replacing![] The Crown D-75A is a fine amp, especially considering that the design is basically 35 years old. I personally enjoy the higher end Crowns, but not everyone has the means to have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for each of the amps! Nor should they!!! ...As this is also retched excess! And since I haven't stomped on the anthill enough... And I consider those who "can't listen to anything less" in need of the same therapy as those who feel that you can't listen to anything less then a $1500 + tube CD player to listen to a format they feel is fatally flawed! Of course that group also needs at least a $20K turntable (with anything under $1500 being absolutely Plebeian!) to listen to those flea market records that were abused on an all-in-one Penny's fold down Victrola in the '60s! And I will get one last shot in to say that most still haven't a clue as to the role of the time domain nor of accurate room tuning which has still not been presented completely on this forum! And we can demonstrate this simply by mentioning a "Haas kicker" to which NO ONE has thus far imparted the significance in the reflective environment where everyone is running about erroneously trying to eliminate all early reflections.There is so much more that everyone needs to understand about acoustics before they go trying to find panacea by just finding the perfect piece of exotic gear! Heck, with so many spending SO much on dedicated rooms, they would do more to improve the sound by simply angling the one wall they so often add by ~1 inch per foot beginning with the primary speaker end then with all of the amplifiers and EQ's on which they are so quick to spend money! In other words, if anyone is so jaded that they think their hearing is so acute that they can't listen to anything less then exotic gear (while failing to understand and appreciate the incredible contribution the room makes), they need to get some help! As this is definitely a situation where reality has taken a back seat to attitude! OK, I think I have stepped on everyone's toes! If I missed anyone I am indeed sorry in my thwarted effort to get a poke in at everyone! After all, it wouldn't be fair to spare any particular group![] By the way, if anyone is curious as to anything i mentioned I am always free to discuss it rationally, as I actually enjoy the topic. But with regards to the arguments...the time is better spent looking for a new $25K turntable or the perfect CD edge treatment![] *** Have fun!!!!! [][][6] Edit: ***He said as facetiously as he could muster! After including himself in several of the lampooned groups! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Hey Dragon, I can't figure out which side of the fence your on regarding liking that particular pro amp or not...[] Ok, you asked for it![][][][6][6][6] I get a kick out of the "I can't listen to a SS amp! It's just too traumatic!!" crowd! I have ridiculously expensive tube and SS gear, and well designed amps in both camps are fine! But then I have also listened to records on less then a $20K turntable and survived! (maybe the fact that I am deaf in one ear and suffering from severe tinnitus in the other has something to do with this?? You think??[] Heck, I am also the weirdo who has worn custom Etymotic ear plugs for almost 20 years of live pro-sound work!, so you know I'm weird!) But I will admit that the reduced care and feeding of the SS amps make them extremely attractive! Especially if you are looking for anything other then flea sized tube amps! And don't forget to factor in a matched quartets of 6L6GCs or 6550s, not to mention Gold Lion KT66s or KT88s! Especially as so many of the "I can't listen to a SS amp" crowd won't be caught with anything less then some exotic, increasingly difficult to find, very expensive version of the tubes! The Crown D-75A is a fine amp, especially considering that the design is basically 35 years old. I personally enjoy the higher end Crowns, but not everyone has the means to have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for each of the amps! Nor should they!!! ...As this is also retched excess! And since I haven't stomped on the anthill enough... And I consider those who "can't listen to anything less" in need of the same therapy as those who feel that you can't listen to anything less then a $1500 + tube CD player to listen to a format they feel is fatally flawed! Of course that group also needs at least a $20K turntable (with anything under $1500 being absolutely Plebeian!) to listen to those flea market records that were abused on an all-in-one Penny's fold down Victrola in the '60s! And I will get one last shot in to say that most still haven't a clue as to the role of the time domain nor of accurate room tuning which has still not been presented completely on this forum! And we can demonstrate this simply by mentioning a "Haas kicker" to which NO ONE has thus far imparted the significance in the reflective environment where everyone is running about erroneously trying to eliminate all early reflections.There is so much more that everyone needs to understand about acoustics before they go trying to find panacea by just finding the perfect piece of exotic gear! Heck, with so many spending SO much on dedicated rooms, they would do more to improve the sound by simply angling the one wall they so often add by ~1 inch per foot beginning with the primary speaker end then with all of the amplifiers and EQ's on which they are so quick to spend money! In other words, if anyone is so jaded that they think their hearing is so acute that they can't listen to anything less then exotic gear (while failing to understand and appreciate the incredible contribution the room makes), they need to get some help! As this is definitely a situation where reality has taken a back seat to attitude! OK, I think I have stepped on everyone's toes! If I missed anyone I am indeed sorry in my thwarted effort to get a poke in at everyone! After all, it wouldn't be fair to spare any particular group![] By the way, if anyone is curious as to anything i mentioned I am always free to discuss it rationally, as I actually enjoy the topic. But with regards to the arguments...the time is better spent looking for a new $25K turntable or the perfect CD edge treatment![] Have fun!!!!! [][][6] "But with regards to the arguments...the time is better spent looking for a new $25K turntable or the perfect CD edge treatment!"[] Isn't it cheaper and easier to just buy a D75 and a Behringer DEQ2496 so you can make things any way you like them? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 6, 2005 Author Share Posted October 6, 2005 Isn't it cheaper and easier to just buy a D75 and a Behringer DEQ2496 so you can make things any way you like them? [] Yes it is. And by a fantastic twist of fate, I have one for sale... Guys, that's your lucky day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 why on earth did you even buy it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 6, 2005 Author Share Posted October 6, 2005 I tought it came with a Kingdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Good to see this place has changed little. Dont recognize 3/4 the names but the beauty of launching a full blown diatribe is still evident with thy chip on thy shoulder firmly in place. Whar's Parrot when you need him? I actually miss that ole goat! Seems someone is all bent out of shape about exotic gear comparisons. Tell me what's so exotic about a $29 internet amplifier that I think is more pleasing than the amplifier in comparison, at least on horns and used within its range.. Ever priced a used B&KST-202? Lord. Give the ole 25,000 dollar turntable stuff a rest. Christ, I just didnt like the sound of the Crown D-75s I had on hand. And I've liked a lot of SS amps more; indeed, the ones I listed are extremely reasonable in cost, every one coming in under $350 used. This place is special. The names have changed; the look has changed; the smilies even look different, but damn if the Klipsch Forum will ALWAYS be the Klipsch Forum. Seems like yesterday.... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 why on earth did you even buy it?I asked the same thing until he sent me to Leo's rave about the D-45. Hell, I respect ole Leo ears as well and almost wanted to drive up there myself to hear what he was talking about... It was so opposite my experiences, I thought the earth had rotated on its axis!Love the Cary bashing. I will admit, I've heard some Cary gear that sounds somewhat mediocre. On the other hand, I've put my preamp which is not exactly stock, against quite a few and it's still one of my favorites. Still, there's a lot of good stuff out there and tube preamps tend to be overachievers. As for the "resolution" comment, I'll let that one go. That's a whole other can of worms. Ironically, I thought the Crown was not particularly resolving, at least when I heard it. AGain, compared to the B&K, it as far less open sounding and more mechanical. I didnt think resolution was its strong point. AGain, havent heard one in 15 years. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Good to see this place has changed little. Dont recognize 3/4 the names but the beauty of launching a full blown diatribe is still evident with thy chip on thy shoulder firmly in place. Whar's Parrot when you need him? I actually miss that ole goat! Seems someone is all bent out of shape about exotic gear comparisons. Tell me what's so exotic about a $29 internet amplifier that I think is more pleasing than the amplifier in comparison, at least on horns and used within its range.. Ever priced a used B&KST-202? Lord. Give the ole 25,000 dollar turntable stuff a rest. Christ, I just didnt like the sound of the Crown D-75s I had on hand. And I've liked a lot of SS amps more; indeed, the ones I listed are extremely reasonable in cost, every one coming in under $350 used. This place is special. The names have changed; the look has changed; the smilies even look different, but damn if the Klipsch Forum will ALWAYS be the Klipsch Forum. Seems like yesterday.... kh Wow! Talk about a persecution complex! First, none of the comments were aimed at you! I don't care if you like the amp or not! But another person asked me my opinion as they said they couldn't tell where I stood on the issue! So I responded in what was meant to be a light hearted tongue in cheek critique of so many of the various camps on the site! They were simply culled from some of the protracted issues that have taken place over the past 6 months!! And I tried to make it abundantly clear that I was intentionally trying to tweak everyone in a bit of fun! But you are right about one thing!!! SOME things haven't changed!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 6, 2005 Author Share Posted October 6, 2005 Seems someone is all bent out of shape about exotic gear comparisons. I liked my Tenor Audio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 First, none of the comments were aimed at you! So I responded in what was meant to be a light hearted tongue in cheek critique of so many of the various camps on the site! They were simply culled from some of the protracted issues that have taken place over the past 6 months!! And I tried to make it abundantly clear that I was intentionally trying to tweak everyone in a bit of fun!My apology. Since I was the only one specifically criticizing the amplifier and making gear comparisons, your response seemed targeted. Actually, I have yet to read a single bad comment about this amplifier within this forum athough I rarely read it, certainly only a few times in the last few years, usually when someone points to something amusing. I still dont agree with your statements really. I dont think this amp has a problem compared to exotic gear. I didnt happen to like it compared to good sounding gear that fell into the bargain bin section.Then again, as I admittted in my post, I havent heard the D-45 EVER nor the D-75 since '91. I will agree with one thing...the room plays a HUGE role. But so does one's tastes, perceptions, and experience. In my own opinion, that's where I found this amp lacking. However, I would love to hear the D-45 that Leo likes so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 role of the time domain nor of accurate room tuning ...... significance in the reflective environment where everyone is running about erroneously trying to eliminate all early reflections. Gotcha covered, Dragon ......... i got Bi-amp/ delay/ CD compensation 'an Dead Cats hangin' all over .............[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Thanks Dragon........have a good evening....lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 weird! I try to edit a statement and it posts it as a new entry! I think there are still a few bugs in the site![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Sorry I've been miss all this. Been involved in a technical issue at work that has taken all the cpu cycles (and I think there aren't as many as there used to be). I can try to hook in over the wekend if there's anything left of this. I don't think Jeff would say what he says if he heard what I am hearing .. but who knows.? Power filtering? New D45 instead of used D75? There's not much else. I never said the amp is better than the tube amps, but it is the best ss I've ever heard and it beats the tube amps on several counts with some material (surprisingly .. Andrew Manze doing the Handel Violin Sonatas). I's a bit doggy on a few selections, but so are the other amps. I think the top end is a bit cleaner (less ss sounding) than the P6D. For some material it is a clear winner .. other material, I'm not sure. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 And it gets even weirder (as the theme from Twilight Zone wafts in the background!!)... Now the title of the thread has changed and it thinks I started the thread!! Neat... I mean weird!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Isn't it cheaper and easier to just buy a D75 and a Behringer DEQ2496 so you can make things any way you like them? [] Yes it is. And by a fantastic twist of fate, I have one for sale... Guys, that's your lucky day! The old frenchmen really made me laugh with this one !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted October 6, 2005 Author Share Posted October 6, 2005 I don't think Jeff would say what he says if he heard what I am hearing .. but who knows.? Power filtering? New D45 instead of used D75? Leo Probably the D45 and the D75 are much more different than I would have tought at first. They're identical on paper but I think that Crown wanted to save pennies by doing only one specsheet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Never mind. I can only imagine LMAO !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSharp Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I don't think Jeff would say what he says if he heard what I am hearing .. but who knows.? Power filtering? New D45 instead of used D75? Leo Probably the D45 and the D75 are much more different than I would have tought at first. They're identical on paper but I think that Crown wanted to save pennies by doing only one specsheet... The schematics of the D-45 and D-75A are identical as are circuit boards. The only difference that accounts for the power difference is the power supply. The D-75A uses a higher voltage transformer and 2X the power supply filter capacitance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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