Move over Thorens, here comes the...Technics?!

[whell]

I picked up an old Technics SL 1200 TT on the cheap over the weekend, and have had a chance to play around with it. This is not the 1200 MKII or any of the "DJ updated" 1200 series tables. As I understand it, the original 1200 came out in (approx) 1972, and the MK II's didn't appear unitl 1979 or so.

In contrast to the above, this was something of a sentimental buy for me. My buddy and I used to be mobile DJ's for a whole bunch of years, and at the center of our set up was a pair of Technics SL-1200 MK II's. I always thought that these were great tables for what we used them for, but I never seriously listened to them outside of a banquet hall. I thought it would be cool to grab the original 1200, for nostalgia if nothing else.

The Technics has some issues, mostly cosmetic. It also has a intermitent power switch. During initial listening, the table couldn't quite hold its speed either. I suspected that the constancy of speed and the intermitent switch were related issues. So, shot the power switch with compressed air, and then gave it a bath in Deoxit. As I suspected, this cleaned up both the fussy switch and the speed issues.

I pulled out my trusty Thorens TD 145 and dropped the Technics in its place. First impression: garbage! Everything sounded compressed and staticy. The pickup was the lowest cost Shure cartridge that you can buy, and suspected that this might have something to do with it. Duh!

Pulled off the Shure, and mounted a Sumiko Pearl that I had sitting unused. Aligned the cartridge, and dropped a record on. MUCH better, but still not quite up to the level of the Thorens.

So, I thought I'd even the playing field. I pulled the Shure V15 III of my Thorens, and mounted it on the Technics. I dropped a record on, and... Oh my Gawd! So far, my impression is that this table is better than the Thorens in almost every way. I'm pretty darn confident that the Thorens was set up right, and alignment, etc was up to snuff. But this is just about the most pleasurable vinyl listening experience I've ever had. I had in no way thought that the Technics would approach the performance of the Thorens, much less best it.

What's up with that!?!

Unless I can figure something out soon, the Thorens is going on the selling block! []

[JSharp]

But this is just about the most pleasurable

vinyl listening experience I've ever had. I had in no way thought

that the Technics would approach the performance of the Thorens, much

less best it.

What's up with that!?!

Unless I can figure something out soon, the Thorens is going on the selling block! []

Well, this comment will probably get me flamed but... You've now

discovered what a lot of us learned in the 70's. That the Thorens

turntables were some of the most finicky and overrated gear of the day.

If you got a good one, picked the right cartridge, lived in a house

with a concrete floor, and possibly used an arm made by someone else,

they worked ok. Otherwise, they weren't all that much better, if any

better, than many of the cheap made in Japan consumer turntables. They

just had more snob appeal..

[Allan Songer]

Not at all. You're right about the stock Thorens arm--gotta ditch that right away if you're serious about making these Thorens tables sound their best. I wouldn't think that a Shure would mate very well with the stock Thorens arm anyway. I never tried that combonation but it sure sounds like a mis-match to me. But then I have never liked Shure cartridges, even when mated to arms they were "made" for (SME 3009-III, Black Widow, Grace, etc.).

It doesn't surprise me a bit that the 1200 sounded better than the Thorens with a stock arm and a Shure cartridge.

[JSharp]

Not at all. You're right about the

stock Thorens arm--gotta ditch that right away if you're serious about

making these Thorens tables sound their best. I wouldn't

think that a Shure would mate very well with the stock Thorens arm

anyway. I never tried that combonation but it sure sounds like a

mis-match to me. But then I have never liked Shure cartridges,

even when mated to arms they were "made" for (SME 3009-III, Black

Widow, Grace, etc.).

It doesn't surprise me a bit that the 1200 sounded better than the Thorens with a stock arm and a Shure cartridge.

I tried three different cartridges on my Thorens arm while I had it and I was never satisfied.

One of the high compliance ADC's. Wow, was that a bad idea on that heavy arm. I was young and dumb so it can be excused.

A 9X Shure but I don't remember the exact model. It had no stabilizer

but it actually tracked much better. The sound quality was so-so

however.

A Grado G2+ Lots better, but not as good as I thought it should have been given the $$ I'd spent.

People kept telling me to buy an SME arm. I kept the Grado and ditched the turntable instead. Problem solved...

[Guest BobG]

For a couple of years, I used a Thorens TD-125 LB (long base) with the SME 3009 III. This was in 1971 as I recall. Had a variety of cartridges including a hand built prototype V-15 series ? An uncle worked for Sure and gave that cart to me. It was pretty impressive mechanically; built out of aluminum. I don't think the suspension tuning was a good match for the arm and never did find a cart that yielded the right vert/horiz resonance tuning.

[Duke Spinner]

don't forget ..( Mashushita ) (Panasonic ) Technic's .....

had ton's of money invested in engineering, and die casting to produce

that turntable....

they probably spent more just on Design, than the total yearly Sales of the Thorens Company

lotsa cheaply made DD turntables .. gave DD a bad name

tho i have an AR , and an Empire ... I would love to throw a 1200 in the mix

[3dzapper]

" I would love to throw a 1200 in the mix"

How much are you willing to spend?

Waaaay back in the seventies, I ditched my sprung table for an SL-1200 and did not look back for decades. (AR? Dual? all I remember is it was post Girard) I have two of them in my back room.

The SL-1200 was the only popularly priced TT I found that could stay in the same room with the Khorns on a wood floor. With a good cart, MA 2002 or Shure V-15 IV, it would track the Telarc 1812's cannons mere feet from the mouth of the horn. (Dust cover removed.) The highly engineered viscous feet and mat combined with the heavy cast plinthe and platter effectively removed any feedback. The tonearm, though slightly microphonic was a supurb tracker at it's price.

At it's advanced age, I would recommend a few drops of oil for the motor and a little silicon lube for the arm bearings ala Frank VanAlstine.

Rick

[tuned4life]

glad to hear you are pleased with the technics 1200. ive never had a technics 1200. i am not an audiophile but i have a close friend who is. he told me that the technics sl 1600 mkII is the best kept secret in the world of turntables. he is close friends with the owner of the turntable factory who says that the technics sl 1600 mkII is the best table out there bar none. a technics sl 1600 mkII finally came up within driving distance and i bought it. when i bought it i had (2) marantz 6300's, a thorens td 160, a dual 1229Q. i set the sl 1600 mkII up with a shure v15 with vn35e stylus and i was just floored with how much better it sounded than any of the others. i like how the touch buttons are accessable with dust cover down. i track the shure v15 III just a hair under 1 gram. i have been so impressed with the technics that i broke my cardinal rule and won another on ebay that had to be shipped. after agreeing to remove platter and pack per my instruction the seller threw it in a box bottom side up and of course it got ruined. i am going to purchase another sl 1600 mkII as soon as one shows up close to home. shure v15 type III is the only cartridge for me. last month i thought i died and went to heaven when i paid 60.00 for a lot that included (2) NOS unopened shure v15 III-he with vn 35 e stylus's and a NOS unopened shure m 97he cartridge with n97he stylus, and (2) unopened vn 35 e stylus. if a technics 1200 shows up close to me i will grab it to find out what it is that they always bring more bucks than the sl 1600mkII's.

[Parrot]

Not at all. You're right about the

stock Thorens arm--gotta ditch that right away if you're serious about

making these Thorens tables sound their best. I wouldn't

think that a Shure would mate very well with the stock Thorens arm

anyway. I never tried that combonation but it sure sounds like a

mis-match to me. But then I have never liked Shure cartridges,

even when mated to arms they were "made" for (SME 3009-III, Black

Widow, Grace, etc.).

It doesn't surprise me a bit that the 1200 sounded better than the Thorens with a stock arm and a Shure cartridge.

Whew! With ringing endorsements like that for Thorens, from the biggest fan of Thorens here, they don't need any detractors.

[garymd]

I don't know how my Technics SL1800 (bought when I was 16) compares to the 1200 but no matter what cart I used, the 1800 sounded like crap. I eventually bought a cheap Thorens TD165 (stock arm), sold the Technics, mounted a Shure V15 and the difference was night and day. Quite an amazing TT rig for the money and just blew away the Technics. I still use the Thorens in my upstairs system and it continues to sound pretty darn good. Can't hold a candle to my Basis, but certainly does the job.

Interesting how different table/arm/cart combos sound on different systems when you get them dialed in just right. Glad you found one that works for you which is all that really counts in the end.

[Allan Songer]

Hey, I love the TD-124, but never really had all that much love for the Thorens tables that followed. Always thought they were great tables for the money in the used market for someone just getting started.

That's as much of a ringing endorsement you're going to get from me about these tables. The TD125 is the best of the bunch, but I'll take my old Linn LP12 or SOTA any day over and of this family of Thorens decks.

[scott0527]

glad to hear you are pleased with the technics 1200. ive never had a technics 1200. i am not an audiophile but i have a close friend who is. he told me that the technics sl 1600 mkII is the best kept secret in the world of turntables. he is close friends with the owner of the turntable factory who says that the technics sl 1600 mkII is the best table out there bar none. a technics sl 1600 mkII finally came up within driving distance and i bought it. when i bought it i had (2) marantz 6300's, a thorens td 160, a dual 1229Q. i set the sl 1600 mkII up with a shure v15 with vn35e stylus and i was just floored with how much better it sounded than any of the others. i like how the touch buttons are accessable with dust cover down. i track the shure v15 III just a hair under 1 gram. i have been so impressed with the technics that i broke my cardinal rule and won another on ebay that had to be shipped. after agreeing to remove platter and pack per my instruction the seller threw it in a box bottom side up and of course it got ruined. i am going to purchase another sl 1600 mkII as soon as one shows up close to home. shure v15 type III is the only cartridge for me. last month i thought i died and went to heaven when i paid 60.00 for a lot that included (2) NOS unopened shure v15 III-he with vn 35 e stylus's and a NOS unopened shure m 97he cartridge with n97he stylus, and (2) unopened vn 35 e stylus. if a technics 1200 shows up close to me i will grab it to find out what it is that they always bring more bucks than the sl 1600mkII's.

Heck those things are dirt cheap. I might just have to slap on some heavy bling, throw the ball cap sideways and give one a go. It's ugly but, if it betters a Dual 1229 and TD160, it would be a nice find at $100

http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-SL-1600MK2-Turntable-SL-1600-MKII_W0QQitemZ5816021834QQcategoryZ64626QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[jt1stcav]

I know all the audiophile purists here are probably laughing their heads off...they're not belt drive with uber-buck low-mass arms, but my '79 SL-1700MK2 (used lightly by my dad who bought it new) is definately NOT a DJ 'table either (although I'm sure it could also be used quite well as one like the latest Technics DJ 'tables at Guitar Center). It is built like a tank, though, and it still performs like new. I'm quite pleased spinnin' vinyl once again with it (and hopefully soon with a new Sumiko Blue Point and a better phono preamp, preferably tubed).

[Guest BobG]

After living with my Thorens TD-125/SME combo, I went a different direction altogether. I bought the Technics SP-10 II. Perhaps some of you remember their demo which included standing on the platter (yes standing on it) and showing how the wieght of a full grown man did not negatively impact the start up time! While I never stood on the platter of my TT, the SP-10 was a beast. Rather than use the optional mounting base, (typical installation was into the counter at a radio station) I fabricated a very thick base from laid up MDF with lead sheets between layers. Total thickness was ~ 6" and the only suspension was rubber feet. Because my home at the time was on a solid slab, and because I put the TT in a different room than the speakers (handy hole through the wall - love those rental properties) acoustic feedback and footfall were no problem. This TT was kind of fun to own. I wish I remembered who I sold it to.

[maxg]

Your findings are no great surprise. Buying and using older equipment can be something of a crapshoot. If you are lucky and your technics is in good shape it will outplay many other tables if their condition is poor.

I have heard Technics tables done up to the nines with Grace arms, high end cartridges and a plethora of power add-ons and they sound very very good indeed. Frankly I think the fashion for belt drives is very much that - a fashion. If the bearings are good there should be minimal motor noise coming through on any DD built like these tanks were - speed stability is actually better (no belt stretching) and they are usually user-adjustable which way and that for cartridge positioning, pitch and the rest.

If I were to buy a DD table I would probably go for the old Kenwood unit - these were even bigger and heavier than the Technics and from the ones I have heard - they outplay them too.

[whell]

After living with my Thorens TD-125/SME combo, I went a different direction altogether. I bought the Technics SP-10 II. Perhaps some of you remember their demo which included standing on the platter (yes standing on it) and showing how the wieght of a full grown man did not negatively impact the start up time!

I never saw that demo, but would have loved to have seen it. Must have been hilarious.

Max - Which old Kenwoods are you referring to? The line of Kenwoods with the bases made of that funky composite?

[maxg]

After living with my Thorens TD-125/SME combo, I went a different direction altogether. I bought the Technics SP-10 II. Perhaps some of you remember their demo which included standing on the platter (yes standing on it) and showing how the wieght of a full grown man did not negatively impact the start up time!

I never saw that demo, but would have loved to have seen it. Must have been hilarious.

Max - Which old Kenwoods are you referring to? The line of Kenwoods with the bases made of that funky composite?

I knew someone was going to ask me that! I will have to ask Antonis - a friend of mine who has one - and get back to you. Oh - his is in a rather fetching dark wood base - or was last time I saw it.

[garymd]

Probably referring to the Kenwood L-07D with the separate power supply. They weigh a ton and are supposed to be about the best DD tables built, at least back in the 70s.

When I bought my SL-1800, the salesman pounded his fist on the table while an LP was playing and it didn't skip. I was impressed enough to buy it. It was only about $150 back in the mid 70s.

[jt1stcav]

Not only has my dad's old SL-1700MK2 impressed the hell outta me, but so did my '84 Denon DP-62L direct-drive manual 'table I regrettably sold last year (dammit...I still kick myself for doing that)! It too was built like a tank and weighed a ton, and stable as all getout! It too never failed me, and sounded even better than my Carver CD player when I used a Sumiko Blue Point MC! When funds permit, I'd love to get the latest Blue Point Special for my Technics, plus maybe a tube output phono stage...

[Guy Landau]

Up until recently, my reference turntable was a Technics SP10 MK2 http://www.xs4all.nl/~rabruil/sp10page.html. It gave amazing performance for very little money (imo, it sounded better than a VPI TNT V). I haven't thought that I'll ever replace it but I've found a Micro Seiki RX-5000 locally, and couldn't resist the temptation of not buying it http://www.zenn.com.sg/beautiful_brute.htm .