OT: Focal Car Audio, worth it?

[Big Ears]

Hi guys, I've been gone a while busy with work and enjoying my HT system (Cream DVD-rocks!!). I hope you all are doing well and will enjoy the holiday's with your family and friends.

I've also been working on my current project of tricking out my 02 Silverado Z71. It's in the shop now getting lifted and fitted with new wheels and tires. I've put about as much research into that as I did when setting up my HT. I started out thinking it would be simple, but have learned it's much more technical than one would think. With the suspension done and only a few more exterior mods to make, I'm ready for stereo.

My question...What are your opinions of Focal car audio? (for you spec guys http://www.focal-america.com/catalog/utopia/165w3.htm) (It is the first 3-way set up I've seen for cars) I assume you all pretty much know what I demand in terms of fidelity, so I'm wanting to know is Focal the way to go or is there something else I should consider? I think list for this set is well over a grand.

My system will have a 2- 10" JL Audio subs under the back seat, with a 6.5" component set in the front doors and another set in the rear doors. I'm undecided on power, but leaning JL Audio. (specs here: one of these for subs http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=252 and one of these for the two separates systems http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=255 ) Also, I should say this system will be music only, no video.

So there it is, you know the deal; I'm willing to pay premium to get the best sound, but don't want to just throw money at a sound problem thinking it is a cure all. (We all know that's never the case) [] If nothing else could you critique the specs for me?

I thought I'd better consult the experts.........

Thanks,

Chris

[greg928gts]

I'm a couple of years removed from being up to date on this subject, but I would recommend you check out the Dynaudio line of component sets.

I remember when they were just introducing the JLAudio line of amplifiers. Supposed to be very high quality stuff.

I wonder if Nakamichi is still making head units?

Greg

[Big Ears]

I'm the same way about car audio, I've been out of the loop for years. It looks to me like the market is mainly flooded with cheap crap. The brands that stand out are Focal, JL Audio, MB Quart, Dnyaudio, Alpine and Kicker, although the last two have made their share of crap in the past. I'm not finding much in the way of top quality head units either. I've got a Sony ES flip down that I'll use for a while. It looks like the high end stuff these days is all about video.

My favorite power amps were from a company that is now out of business called Linear Power. They made some monster amps that ran cool and would pound you to death with hardly any noise at all. I agree the Nak's were the sh_t back in the day, but I have not of heard anything from them in years. Perhaps someone has the lowdown for us....?

[efzauner]

Getting high quality audio into a vehicle is not simply a matter of putting high quality components. Yes, Focal is a good brand, and there are others, including high end products from Polk, MB Quart, Alpine, and, yes, the Pioneer TSD Kevlar line. You also will need a good amp to drive these and a good head unit with pre amp outs. Again, I find Alpine, and pioneer are good here. However the main thing is that in order to get real good audio you will have to do a few things. First strip the inside and do a very good job of sound insulation and deadening. No sense in putting thousands of dollars into equipment with the high noise levels in a truck or most cars. Second, speakers firing accross the front is not the best thing. Most SQ (sound Quality) setups have custome speaker mounts that aim the speakers better at you. Before laying down the big buck, inform yourself about the subject, visit some of the Sema shows or other shows aimed at the performance and car audio market. Oh yes, and have fun!

[Frzninvt]

Focals are OK but don't forget about a/d/s, Morel, Vifa, Audax, Clif Designs, and Image Dynamics horn systems. MB Quart's tweeters are WAY too bright and harsh they always have been. You can put together a killer component set from scratch from Madisound or Parts Express. The Morel MW-166 woofer has a 3" Hexatech voice coil, poly cone, rubber surround, dual magnets, has an FS of like 40Hz, can take gobs of power and is only like 2 1/4" - 2 1/2" deep.

JL Audio is and always have been over-rated, most are junk unless you are going with the W7 line. Most subwoofers today are all geared towards SPL competitions and not SQ.

I actually run a pair of older Orion NT2 10" subwoofers in a sealed enclosure and they are clean and dig really deep for their size. I use a super rare pair of Magnum Professionals 6" x 9" component set that is around 23 years old. I run a/d/s 6.5" components with reworked crossovers for the front.

There are not many worthy amplifiers out there anymore most are chinese made garbage, I would go with some Series VIII HiFonics amps like the Isis or Ulysses or some of Orion's 3rd generation amplifiers like the XTR-275, XTR-450, XTR-2150, or the High Current 225-HCCA or 250-HCCA some of the best car amplifiers ever produced. Linear Power made some really nice amps and though no longer in business nice used ones come up for sale on eBay. Zapco, Soundstream, and Phoenix Gold also used to make nice amps, now they are all ca ca.

Nakamichi head units were OK but now they are mostly junk. If you want serious sound quality look for the 30th anniversary Alpine 7909 or the now discontinued 7998, the 7998 can do everything and play every format.

I competed on the IASCA circuit from '95 - '97 in the 1-150 watt class and have seen and heard some of the finest systems around including Charlie LaMarca's $250K Corvette system.

I expect the same sonics in the car as I do in my living room and the system I put together certainly does it, the midbass tightness cannot be rivaled it is incredible. Clarity and detail are stellar and I bought most of the stuff used since it is no longer available. I got the head unit and a/d/s components new.

I can help for sure, I have been into car audio for about 30 years now.

My Magnum's, these are all brushed cast aluminum you don't want to know what they cost in the early 80's.

[Indyjeep]

I agree with Frzininvt, Focals are overrated for the money. If your into getting an awesome set-up check out diymobileaudio.com, you can make a nice component set for a fraction of the money that will sound better. For subs there are a lot of new online sub makers that have much better SPL or SQ, REaudio.com, Imagedynamics.com, elementaldesigns.com. All great sub makers and even have a few component sets that aren't bad.

[hooting_monkey]

I'd say go with the Focals and a JL W7 speaker wise, a 4ch and a mono Alpine respectively for amplifacation, and an Eclipse deck up front.

[michael hurd]

I have to respectfully disagree with Freezin, JL audio has been a class leader in subwoofers, albeit at a price premium. Unfortunately, they used foam surrounds, I know of more than a few that the surrounds are toast on. I have heard a good number of systems with JL w6 and w3 subs, and aside from the healthy power requirements, they do work well.

Myself, I own JBL subwoofers, they provide reasonable performance for a lot less money than a JL audio piece, with higher sensitivity, trading off box volume requirements.

He is right on in the amplification department, older generation Orion, PPI, Soundstream, are much better than the junk that is put out today.

[michael hurd]

The sky is the limit, although everyone has a budget. I would recommend first applying dynamat to all the interior panels, as much as you can afford. I cheaped out, only applying one pack of evercoat brand sound deadening squares to each door. Even still, that set me back $ 120 cdn.

The floor has a heavy pad under the carpet, plus a heavy rubber layer, good enough for me. Behind the rear seat, I added an other full layer of used carpet padding ( woven wool type stuff ) out of a junk car, going to the scrapyard. ( helps when a family member owns a towing business )[]

I applied a thin layer of weatherstrip around the edge of plastic panels that touch other plastic panels, so that there is a soft gasket, and no squeaking noises.

I had a buzz above the headliner, a wire going to the interior lights was buzzing on the roof at high volumes, a piece of foam wrapped around the wire fixed that.

[michael hurd]

One thing I will definately recommend is to run a heavy gauge power and ground wire directly from the battery ( fuse the + side within 18" of battery ) to the amp(s) or distribution block.

Having done this on three cars, I have experienced zero alternator whine, computer noise, etc. Most people will ground the amplifier to the noisy chassis, and not upgrade the body ground at the battery end.

This does require a bit of planning to accomplish succesfully, you may have to cut channels in the factory pad under the carpet, so that the carpet lays flat. You may also have to install a feedthrough bushing in the firewall to route large cable. ( most of my vehicles, I have been able to go through the a-pillar into the interior through the factory grommets )

[thxsubwoofers]

Focal are Good Speakers, try and also check out some Boston Acoustic Speakers. My older brother is into his Sound Quality and he went with 2 boston acoustics z6 speakers. Very loud and the keep the Sound Quality. By reading what you put down, "Best Sound" this might be your choice. My older brother always goes with the best. []

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/car/car_product.aspx?category_id=14&family_id=56&product_id=216

[007]

I'm going to put Morel's in my car with a McIntosh amp and head unit. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

http://www.morelusa.com/prices/ren.html

[Big Ears]

Thanks for all the information and ideas. I've been working really late the last several days and have not had time to do more research. I got the truck out of the shop on Friday though, here are before and after pics. I've got a few more exterior mods ready to go, but want to drive it a few more days before it goes back in the shop for a week. Once that is done, it's ready for audio.

[Frzninvt]

I will agree with Michael that the W6's and W3's were good subwoofers, but many did not hold up when they got the crap pounded out of them by an Orion 2100 HCCA. The quality did better as time went on, and the W7's are in a different league altogether - they are very nice. MMats also makes some nice subwoofers and amplifiers, Cadence's top of the line models are not bad either.

Eclipse (Fujitsu Ten) decks are junk I would avoid them like the black plague, since the Alpine CDA-7998 is no longer available new I would look at the CDA-9855.

[michael hurd]

FWIW, This system will be handicapped by the additional noise from the tires that you choose, when it is lifted. Tire noise can be substansial at speed, not so much cruising in town at the speed limit.

Anything you can do to lower the noise floor will be well worth it. Lowering the noise in the interior 3 db is like doubling amplifier power, so keep that in mind when selecting exhaust components and tires.

[Big Ears]

Yep, I agree 100% on the Dynamat. I'm planning on having the floor and doors done completly and using the enclosures that go behind the speakers in the doors. My tires are actually pretty quiet considering they are mud tires. They are Toyo Open Country M/T's and noise was a consideration vs. the Nitto Mud Grapplers, which look cool but are much, much louder. I am planning headers and new exhaust, but want audio first.

I'm going to look up all of your suggestions tonight and might post a few more questions. Thanks for your help!

Chris

[Big Ears]

Does the preamp voltage make a big difference in your head unit? The Sony ES that I have has 5.5 volt outputs and I have noticed that the high end Alpines are 4 Volt. Is there an audible difference in the two?

[michael hurd]

Not really, but the higher the preamp voltage, the less chance of noise being picked up through the unbalanced rca cables and amplified. One thing you want to check to make sure that the amplifier(s) you select can handle an input voltage that high. If they do not, you will clip the amplifier before the head unit gets to maximum output. You could install attenuators in line ( harrison labs makes some ) to reduce the level before the inputs of the amplifier(s).

This is more important for continuous sine-wave test tones than music, rarely will you have signals approaching maximum output ( 0 dbfs ), unless you are playing a bass cd.