pyroponic Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I'm currently getting my RF-7's modded by DeanG, and one thing that i've thought about while they've been gone is biwiring them when I get them back. Is there a noticable sound difference and can anyone recommend any good cables designed for this? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Hello, While I have 25 years of experience with setting up audio systems, I have not had the pleasure of dealing with DeanG xovers. Having said that, a few points on cables and biwiring. 1. With most speakers, biwiring will result in some audio improvement. The bass seems to tighten up and the mid treble is a bit smoother. 2. I think that both speaker cables need to be the same when attempting to biwire. I have tried using different cables for biwiring. It does not sound right. I'm sure this one will be debated. However, this has been my experience.3. In terms of speaker cables, I think going with a companies lower line is the best route. For example, audioquest's lower price cables at 3 dollars a foot will give you 85 to 90% of their 100 dollar per foot cable. Do not use simple zip cord cable. Again, it does not sound right.4. Keep in mind, while the speaker wire is important. Room acoustics and speakers placement is much more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 1 pair of regular wire 10-14awg.... anything else I bet you would be hard pressed to find a difference in a proper AB/X test... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 ygmn, I'll take your bet. While working in a hifi shop in MI for 5 years, did ab/x testing and the like with almost every cable at the time. I could pick out the difference between zip and audioquest type 4 everytime. Anyway, a very noticable improvement over the zip. Just pay the 100.00 or so for some good wire, your ears will thank you. Even Bob Carver, when I talk to him about the subject , thought that zip cord sounded godawful.......enough said.... Ygmn, one thing I've learned over the years with this forum.......There are so many people with 20 to 60 years of experience in audio......You need have a open mind to how some of these opinion were derived, before you type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 ygmn, I'll take your bet. While working in a hifi shop in MI for 5 years, did ab/x testing and the like with almost every cable at the time. I could pick out the difference between zip and audioquest type 4 everytime. Anyway, a very noticable improvement over the zip. Just pay the 100.00 or so for some good wire, your ears will thank you. Even Bob Carver, when I talk to him about the subject , thought that zip cord sounded godawful.......enough said.... Ygmn, one thing I've learned over the years with this forum.......There are so many people with 20 to 60 years of experience in audio......You need have a open mind to how some of these opinion were derived, before you type. I do have open mind... I have 20 years experience.. I can see no Scientific study done... it is all marketing...IMO... It is good you like it...does not bother me..... but IMO and case..I think it is waste of money... McIntosh thinks special fancy wires is hogwash....links to the Roger Russell's site have been all over here.... and they advocate Plain wire.. Mr PWK said Regular lamp cord... Plenty of members feel special wires is BS too as well....while others feel otherwise... But spend the money...if ya want...I will not preach to ya.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 HCM Audio sells the audioquest "GBC Delux SST" 12 awg speaker cables, custom terminated, at excellent prices. The build and materials quality alone is worth the price. I use these on both my systems (one stereo, one 3.1). hcmaudio.com With different cables, you can certainly see a difference on a scope (that's why one calibrates scope probes, for example) and I can hear a difference. But, in both cases, the differences are small. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Thank for the reply ygmn, I understand your opinion on regular lamp cord. However, I have heard the differnce and while it is small, you can hear it. With the audioquest type 4 and b&w 801S3. It HAD smoother treble and the pace and timing was much better (sorry to go linn on ya). I could tell 100% of the time what cables my friends put on.....that is not chance. If your budget does not fit 100 dollars of so for cheap audioquest or mit. This is what I recommend: Go to home depot and get solid core 12 gage power wire (100ft is 18.00 dollars). This too sounds way better than lamp cord. Specially in the area of bass. Although, you miss the timing and imaging of better speaker cable. As for scientific proof. Sorry I dont have any. Just hundreds of hours of sweat and tweeking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I had extra footage of Carol 12 gauge speaker wire (Home Depot) so I went ahead and bi wired for giggles. I don't know if it made a difference, but I sure don't believe it hurt. Just seems to me more is better. What I do know for sure is that my stereo sounds damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico_de_luuks Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I bi- wired my RF 35s and I could tell the (positive) difference. Had some pro sound 16 AWG speaker wire and, like JPM, just gave it a try. I think it worked for my set up. Couldn't agree more about the importance of speaker placement as both sound quality as stereo imaging varies significantly with placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 If you have any decent 12 guage wire thats as good as it gets,you can make it sound different(if you think altered is better) w/other cable but then its altered.Only my opinion after using biwire cables costing as much as a decent amp.Active biamping now thats a different story,still imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Fish, I agree with your point, except possibly you know a 12ga wire that is the standard and any other is creating "altered" sound? Possibly the wire you are refering to is creating altered sound and some other 12ga is creating the real thing. How do you know which one is doing the least altering? Does cheapest mean it's the most accurate? Somewhat academic, I know. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Hi Leo,I certainly don't want to speak in absolutes so here goes.I've purchased good quality 12guage cables for some years,some turn green,others held up until a new configuration reguires more cable etc.I've owned biwire cables from four manufacturers,all ones most would recognize as atleast ok,price $250 to $550.I understand this is far away from top o the line but should show an improvement.As I kinda progressed up in price I expected improvement,didn't really happen for me,they sounded about the same,just as good but not better.A friend of mine brought his new cables over so I could hear em and compare.To his surprise and mine they actually sounded worse,worse than any 22guage cord from days of old.They had removed something from the music,the sparkle/ fullness? At that point I had not had my speakers hooked up with just a 12guage cable for awhile.I went and dug out my old 12guage cables,plugged em' in and viola,it sounded better than it had for awhile,especially after hearing his almost 1$k retail biwire cables.We then switched em' back to his(really nice looking)cables,it was even more apparent switching quickly.I went a week or so later a bought a pair of factory terminated 12guage cables(about $75 per 10ft pair)sold my biwire's and have been very satisfied for some time now. So,I guess the best answer I have is the ones that sounded about the same I consider unaltered and the one I noticed a neg affect on was altered,you're right,academic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 The biggest difference I heard was the changing of speakers themselves, the next biggest was placement, then the crossover mod and lastly different cables. I changed from 14 gauge zip to heavy monster brand 12 gauge and I could clearly hear a difference. I now use 10 gauge copper electrical wire, (Romex) using the supplied speaker jumpers and a + and - run to the back of the speakers from the amp. Good Luck.....[G] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico_de_luuks Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Would I be *better* off changing from my 16 to 12 gauge speaker wire? Why is 12 gauge the optimum? Just wondering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 I think it's the most "prefered", in the sense of cost, managability and termination factors. Longer runs being the end-all, as to AWG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 Would I be *better* off changing from my 16 to 12 gauge speaker wire? Why is 12 gauge the optimum? Just wondering...I was just thinking the bigger the better with my 10 ga., cost is cheap with this kind of cable/wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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