Mobile is correct

[D-MAN]

Is everyone forgeting that this is a forum owned and run by a company?! They own it and they have the right to do with it whatever they want. We have the privelege of using it. The Klipsch internet presence is "clean", pleasant and professional, and they certainly have an interest in keeping it that way, as any corporate entity would.

Simple as that.

I find it remarkable that it remains as free and open as it is, which shines a very good light on the moderators and the website management of Klipsch. (I'm not just sucking up, this is a fact).

DM

[pauln]

This is one of the most tenderfoot forums there is .... !! you guys who have no other intrests then audio should really check out the forum world out there !!

This place is nice and reserved in comparison .. you should all be happy with how civil folks are here and polite and willing to help out ..

I'm on a few health and fitness forums that guys come right out and tell you your an f "n loser and go hide under a rock if your such a pansy !! There opinions are the only ones that matter and if you disagree they will haunt you on every thread you dare to post into ...

Now if this forum ran rampant like that ... no one would dare ask a silly question in fear of being called out infront of the world .. This is a good place and if the moderators here want to put in the time and effort to keep it that way then good on them .

For all the a$$holes out there that want to bait the less informed of us inorder to exercise there cerebral cortex ... i'll send you a link to a place where you too can be beat into the ground and made to feel like you make others feel .. we'll see just how long you last againstt you own kind ...

The administrators of this forum have decided where the line in the sand is drawn and made that clear to most of us who have been around for a few years ... I can see a newbie being read the riot act .. but the vets should know better then to bait the mods

Yes!

Exactly!

I love this forum because it is so much more comprised of thoughtful, polite, and clear thinking individuals compared to what else is out there. I've seen some brutal and cruel stuff on other forums - like you would never believe - the kind of stuff that makes you want to call 911 to make sure the guy is going to make it. Devastating personal attacks, charactor assaults, sadistic manipulations...

The Klipsch forum is at the top of well mannered forums.

Plus we get the bonus of seeing that pretty picture of Amy!

Pauln

[michael hurd]

Jimmy, would you speak to your boss with the same disrespect if he said that to you? Come on now....

Not sure I understand your question.

Meaning would you tell your boss that he had made a hitlerian statement, if he had said to you what you said to Amy? After all, she is doing her job.

[Jeff Matthews]

Sorry, I'm not seeing how this is censorship at all...

It is definitely censorship. The definition of "censor" should make that clear.

This is a private forum--you must be a member to post. We own this forum, we can remove it at any time with no lawful repercussions.

I totally agree. But there are some interesting repercussions involving censorship. Like for instance, some might recall a class action against Denny's restaurants for refusing to serve Blacks in the same manner as they serve Whites. If not, you might remember Hooters getting sued for refusing to hire male waiters. Although, it is privately-owned, a venue open to the public must not discriminate improperly (which, of course, would be upon the basis of ethnicity, religion, sex, age, etc.). And "no" I am not suggesting anything ought to be tested in any lawsuits. I just thought I'd like to express what I believe to be the rules of the game.

.... I can't just leave when I don't like what's going on. My job is to fix it.

You mean "censor" it. I am not saying this to denigrate anybody. However, let's call it what it is. If that's your policy, so be it. I would hope the guy said something really awful to deserve being banished. Maybe he did.

[ancientdude]

People,

relax,

I am a member at various forums on the internet and by far this is the most open and loving (pardon the wishywashyness) forum i have ever visited.

In other forums people get banned for stupid reasons, these are much more sincere reasons.

A moderator is entitled to do anything they want, including banning. I mean, banning is not the end of the world, changing your computer's ip address is as simple as clicking the start button but thats not the point.

Anyways the point of my post:

Relax. You are all here (not banned), no one really cares what you think, unless we are discussing audio.
Arguing on the internet: no one ever wins.

[Jeff Matthews]

I would also like to echo the comments that folks on this thread are, by and large, very helpful and friendly, and we have alot of fun. So, I do think the forum good. Is it because banning occurs alot, or are bad people just not finding their ways here?

[Deang]

"My job is to monitor the forum to make sure it best represents Klipsch. I'm not here out of enjoyment, to learn about audio, or to make friends--I can't just leave when I don't like what's going on. My job is to fix it. The difference is huge."

No only is this true, but people are forgetting about the agreement clause during registration. You see, we agreed to not act like idiots when we joined the forum. We entered into a good faith contract with Klipsch, and the way I see it is that if you go off the deep end you get what's coming to you. BTW, getting abusive in a PM whether it's with the moderator or otherwise should carry the same consequences.

[Colin]

I have always felt that anything goes when it comes to public debate, for there is no democracy without dissent. However.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

To provoke or abuse someone either in the forum or verbally is outside the bounds of human discourse. I know that there are some real contests here with testosterone rich urine (by people who have not heard big ole horns with tubes! Just kidding), but dissent inside the Klipsch house still needs to remain within bounds set by her ladyship. Hopefully her ladyship will exercise restrain and warn the guests before dismissing them. If not, as privileged as we are to be here, we should all respect her ladyships wishes. [H]

[Deang]

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this forum. Although this forum does not and cannot review the messages posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we at this forum reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this forum and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). We at this forum also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you."

[Amy]

I can probably count the number of people I've permanently banned from this forum on one hand.

It is NOT censorship, Jeff. Sorry. It is not allowing a person to join for not following the rules. Please do not compare it to racism, sexism, or any other ism you are trying to pin on me.

Are you saying that slander and libel are unconsitutional charges?

For a miniscule civil liberties lesson, please note that the First Amendment actually says that CONGRESS shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. It doesn't say that people have the right to say whatever they want.

[strutter]

This place is nice and reserved in comparison .. you should all be happy with how civil folks are here and polite and willing to help out ..

I came here long before i purchased any klipsch products ,reading and surfing around before becoming a member and finally buying klipsch. i stayed for exactly the reason stated by dale. some other AV sites have members that are down right rude, especially to newbies. sarcasm is one thing, mean and nasty is another.

i go to forums to share thoughts and information and get help when needed from people who are interested in the same thing, not to be belittled or made a fool of.

i hate to see someone who has spent a long time here loose their PRIVILEGE to be here. if he was engaging in acts deemed improper according to the rules we all agreed to when registering as members then something needed to be done. if removal of that privilege is stated as punishment for that infraction then so be it.

i don't know the specifics around the expulsion but if a moderator did it to prevent this forum from becoming unruly i applaud her.

My 2 cents.

[Parrot]

I believe we are talking about two different individuals. One, the subject of the locked thread, is dragonfyr.

The other one is the unidentified-to-us person who made a rude

suggestion to Amy. The issues involved in the two cases are

considerably different. dragonfyr, for instance, owned Klipsch speakers before Amy was even born. Banning him is outrageous.

Mobile, while disagreeing with both individuals, supported their

decision to speak uncowed by authority, and I agreed with Mobile.

[PrestonTom]

I think it is sad that courtesy and decency have become out-of-fashion.

It really does not matter whether the forum is electronic or not. When it sinks to the level of thoughtless comments toward our host, then we are not being very gracious guests. That is what we are: guests.

This forum is being provided for our amusement. What do we do? We abuse, we point fingers and say it was the other guy who started it, we get into esoteric word games when we don't want to acknowledge our thoughtless behavior, and finally we resort to the excuse that since this electronic so we don't need to be humane.

I have learned a great deal here. I have unfortunately learned a great deal about another side of human nature also.

-Tom

[Jeff Matthews]

I can probably count the number of people I've permanently banned from this forum on one hand.

It is NOT censorship, Jeff. Sorry. It is not allowing a person to join for not following the rules. Please do not compare it to racism, sexism, or any other ism you are trying to pin on me.

Are you saying that slander and libel are unconsitutional charges?

For a miniscule civil liberties lesson, please note that the First Amendment actually says that CONGRESS shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. It doesn't say that people have the right to say whatever they want.

I was not trying to pin any of those on you. I have no idea about how many have been banned, etc. And, for all I know, I might agree with you for banning the guy. Like I said, I don't know what he said. So, please do not be quick to jump to conclusions about what I am saying and try to extend them beyond more than I said. I am in no real position to judge, but thought I might give some comments in relation to general policies.

It is censorsorship, though. A definition of "censor" is "ban: forbid the public distribution of." Your contract, for what it is worth, expressly provides you the right to censor. I see no real problem having that right - and even exercising it from time to time in the right circumstances. You must have thought that by me saying it is censorship, I was saying you were doing it unfairly. Not necessarily so.

Also, I agree that CONGRESS shall make no laws... my comments are that the government's policy was a good one and could be used as a guide.

Some others refer to a contract we made. Interesting. I wonder if I had a restaurant, if I could put a sign on the door that said, "By entering, you agree, represent and warrant that you are Caucasian." Does anyone think the contract would be enforceable? Just a law school lesson on how pliable these concepts of contracts and liberties are. Again, the analogy is in no way meant to be extended to mean your policy is anywhere near close to something like that. Just food for thought in terms of exercising your powers and construing your contract, which you might have done correctly.

And finally, I'll reiterate to make clear, Amy. Who knows? I might have banned the guy, too. Anybody care to repeat what he said in maybe a more diplomatic manner?

[Jimmy James]

Are the posters like the one with the vulgar reference to fellatio in the Diana Krall thread banned?

Are they good representatives of the image Klipsch wants to project?

Must be, because the genitals, bodily functons, sexual comments,

drinking etc. etc. etc. seldom seem to raise an eyebrow.

Depravity and profanity seem to go unchecked here.

Selected offenders and offended, as well as I can tell.

As long as everybody's happy, filth is fine.

[Jeff Matthews]

Jimmy, that might go to show that Amy is alot more tolerant than she might otherwise be. And, of course, there are degrees of everything. Nothing new about that.

[maxg]

On the one hand - I think Dragonfly is a loss to the forum - even though I too did not agree with much of what he said.

On the other hand - telling a moderator to stick it where the sun dont shine can only be expected to result in a ban for that individual.

Like it or not we have moderators on the forum and they are the Police around here. For a police force to be effective it demands respect. Deny that respect and there is trouble.

I do not see this as a freedom of speech issue. There is no restriction on any one that wants to saying just about anything they want on the internet - just restrictions on where. You cant do it on www.cnn.com without their permission, and neither can you on the klipsch forums.

That the moderator can ban you for any reason whatsoever is a fact on the forum - thus far it is not something she seems to have done to excess. If you are not happy with that you have 2 choices:

1. Go elsewhere.
2. Complain to Klipsch.

Not much else to be said.

[DizRotus]

Parrot-

Your point about two different people, dragonfyr and a newbie (I have a good idea who the rude newbie was), and two different reasons for banishment is well taken.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Nevertheless I disagree with your apparent opinion regarding Amy's right to banish anyone. The banishment option does not appear to be exercised indiscriminately. If you feel that Amy is unfair, youre free to civilly express that opinion without fear of banishment, and youre free to go to a site that meets your standards.

If anyone came to my house and told anyone to kiss his/her/its A$$, he/she/it would be asked to leave and would not be welcomed back. An irresponsible and selfish attitude and rudeness would be the causes for banishment, not the specific language. I'm not offended by the filthiest joke if it's clever, the setting is appropriate and it's not designed to insult someone. But, show disrepect in my house, and you'll you be asked to leave my house.

If you don't like my choice of welcomed guests, you're free to hang out at someone else's house. This Forum is part of Klipsch's house and Amy has every right to control the guest list.

If disagreements, sarcasm, rudeness and boorish behavior were cause for banishment, there would be very few forum members left. Its fortunate that most can exercise self control when sharing information and expressing disagreement.

[maxg]

Oh yes - one more thing - whilst we would have to ask Ami to be sure I would guess the Dragon thread was closed because the originator of the thread, Colterphoto, asked for it to be closed on 2 ocasions within the thread.

I certainly couldn't see anything in Mobile's response that would warrant closure by Ami - she has let far worse pass.

[Jeff Matthews]

On the other hand - telling a moderator to stick it where the sun dont shine can only be expected to result in a ban for that individual.

Ah! I see. If I was told this sort of thing in a more vulgar form, and if my job was to be king/queen, where as such, a modicum of decorum was expected in my "presence," I'd, I'd, I'd........... BAN the SOB! Really, no joke! Don't know that I'd ban him if it was said to another member, though. Some folks just deserve a higher decorum than others IMO. The moderator is definitely in that category when it comes to forums.