Duke Spinner Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I don't recall anything in the IOM ... Measure, not Speculate ...! use the RS dB meter use a voltmeter, AC volt scale, on the Amp out then ...We'll all know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 My son Ethan took up drumming a little over a year ago. He has a decent kit set up in his bedroom. After a single trip into his room while he was doing his thing I immediately went to my shooting box and pulled out my Browning hearing protectors -- which he now wears when he's practicing without complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 . I just wonder what the peaks are at in terms of watts with my Crown when volume's up 1/2 way. . the settings of the Input Attenuation ... is pretty much meaningless .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 Now, your talking, Duke. A voltmeter, I got! Tell me what max volt setting to use on the meter and what to test. You mean speaker outputs on the amp while it's playing? I need the answer to both parts. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Let's try to remember that the maximum output of a Klipschorn is 120dB, and at that point there is some major compression and very high levels of distortion from the K-55/K-400. Anyone immune from this assault needs to do some hard thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 Who knows, Dean? Maybe I'm listening to 85dB and get freaked out more than most. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 say, 200 vac range, would be a common range your meter may have you may want to lower the range to 20 v, when you see how low a voltage you are running i can't imagine listening to the K-55/ 400 @ 120 dB ...... the sound of this combo, for me, starts to go south quick at 110 dB for instance, 22 vac @ 8 ohms ... is 100 watts measure across the speaker terminals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I have a feeling you're listening at around 95-100dB steady state with peaks of 105dB or so. I also suspect you're not using more than 50 watts total even though you think you are because it sounds like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 Okay, if memory serves me, I can disconnect speakers and do this in silence, right? Reason: my wife is catching up on some zzzzzz's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I think Jeff's in for a Bigggggg surprise ..........Heh,Heh,Heh..........[].....50 watt PEAK's .... ....or ... he really is a Deaf Drummer .....[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Jeff, I'm going to be blunt and honest. Reading your posts and the listening habits you seem to have I'm going to venture to say tubes would be a total waste for you. I seriously do not think you would appreciate the difference. In fact pushing the volumes your describing I think the difference would be very hard for anyone to pick out and could possibly be a step backwords. Tubes are not for everyone. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 Thanks, Craig, but I won't know 'til I know what I am driving. Duke: 25 volts at 1/2 way. Sounds like somewhere just over 100 watts. Think you could run all the figures and get me SPL on Khorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 say, 200 vac range, would be a common range your meter may have you may want to lower the range to 20 v, when you see how low a voltage you are running i can't imagine listening to the K-55/ 400 @ 120 dB ...... the sound of this combo, for me, starts to go south quick at 110 dB for instance, 22 vac @ 8 ohms ... is 100 watts measure across the speaker terminals 22 RMS Volts AC is not 100 watts into a 8 ohm load the formula is 22 X 22 = 484/ 8 Ohms = 60.5 watts Even the best meters will never keep up with the transients, then factor in that the load is varying with the frequency your test can be off by a huge margin. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Jeff, Is your meter a true RMS meter or is it just giving peak to peak voltages? Are you feeding it music or a test signal? Many cheap meters aren't very accurate on AC at anything but 60hz. The formula to calculate watts requires the load source... if you unplugged your speakers the amp isn't feeding a load. Since it is a SS low output impedance amp the voltage shouldn't change much when you plug a load back in but it is something to keep in mind anyway. Lastly.... the level you are measuring... is this how loud you are actually listening at or are you just cranking things up to make measurements? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I won't be precise but can give you a good idea. 20V scale is all you need. 2.83VRMS @ 8 Ohms is one watt. I'll bet you are running from the room at even that level. When I was running my Nikko with watt meters, it was very hard to get them to bounce off one watt. If you are bumping one watt and your source is producing 20Db of dynamic range above the average you would be hitting 100 watts on the peaks. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 1, 2006 Author Share Posted January 1, 2006 Jeff, Is your meter a true RMS meter or is it just giving peak to peak voltages? Are you feeding it music or a test signal? Many cheap meters aren't very accurate on AC at anything but 60hz. The formula to calculate watts requires the load source... if you unplugged your speakers the amp isn't feeding a load. Since it is a SS low output impedance amp the voltage shouldn't change much when you plug a load back in but it is something to keep in mind anyway. Lastly.... the level you are measuring... is this how loud you are actually listening at or are you just cranking things up to make measurements? Shawn Don't know what is meant by true RMS meter. Feeding it music, but with speakers disconnected. The amp is definitely feeding a load, I saw the meter rise as I turned up volume. The level I measured is what I listen to when I want to just crank for 3 or 4 songs. I do it regularly, but my "regular" level is when I play drums, which is well below that. If I understand Craig's "transients" issue, that would mean the meter would lag behind the peaks, correct? Meaning the margin of error would be skewed toward the low side? Lastly, FYI, the meter stayed fairly steady between 20 and 25 volts - it wasn't all over the place. Just FYI. I'm gonna take a quick shower and come back to see what answers I get. I'd especially like to see the conversion to SPL's through the KHorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I won't be precise but can give you a good idea. 20V scale is all you need. 2.83VRMS @ 8 Ohms is one watt. I'll bet you are running from the room at even that level. When I was running my Nikko with watt meters, it was very hard to get them to bounce off one watt. If you are bumping one watt and your source is producing 20Db of dynamic range above the average you would be hitting 100 watts on the peaks. Rick That Nikko's watt meters must of really sucked or you have girlie ears[] Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 A nice tube preamp gets you much of the way there. I've used both the QSC PLX 1602 and Crown MT-600, and I thought the sound was very good being pushed by the Peach. The QSC was especially impressive. Dean, Doesn't the PLX series have an input impedance of 6kohms unbalanced? Isn't that going to be pretty tough finding a nice tube preamp with such a low output impedance. Or does the the peach fit the bill nicely without a huge impedance mismatch? How would lets say the merlin work out? Thanks for any input. Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 ...When I turn up my Crown to 1/2, I get volumes ..... But what is volume on your preamp set at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Jeff, Is your meter a true RMS meter or is it just giving peak to peak voltages? Are you feeding it music or a test signal? Many cheap meters aren't very accurate on AC at anything but 60hz. The formula to calculate watts requires the load source... if you unplugged your speakers the amp isn't feeding a load. Since it is a SS low output impedance amp the voltage shouldn't change much when you plug a load back in but it is something to keep in mind anyway. Lastly.... the level you are measuring... is this how loud you are actually listening at or are you just cranking things up to make measurements? Shawn Don't know what is meant by true RMS meter. Feeding it music, but with speakers disconnected. The amp is definitely feeding a load, I saw the meter rise as I turned up volume. The level I measured is what I listen to when I want to just crank for 3 or 4 songs. I do it regularly, but my "regular" level is when I play drums, which is well below that. If I understand Craig's "transients" issue, that would mean the meter would lag behind the peaks, correct? Meaning the margin of error would be skewed toward the low side? Lastly, FYI, the meter stayed fairly steady between 20 and 25 volts - it wasn't all over the place. Just FYI. I'm gonna take a quick shower and come back to see what answers I get. I'd especially like to see the conversion to SPL's through the KHorns. For the meter to be properly tracking the transients for peak output it should not be holding steady at any voltage. It should be jumping wildly. If you actually listen to music pumping 25 volts RMS into your Khorns in anything but a huge room I have to say your way beyond any hope hearing wise[] Or your meter is complete junk. If your meter is not a true RMS volt meter this test is pretty much worthless. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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