thebes Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 odd man. Been thinking about this small speaker (which are very popular) stuff versus the "you need a big speaker to get good sound because you can't repeal the laws of the universe" crowd. As I understand it (and I''m sure I don't) there's some physics involved (in other words witchcraft) and you need a certain volume of air to drive, well, the drivers so they produce accurate sound and volume across their range. I quess what I am thinking, very tentatively here, is if you change the medium, would you change the message. In others words, how about sealed water-filled or other liquid speakers. Water transmits sound really well. Or maybe some kind of pressurized speaker which packs the air volume tighter, or some new wonder fabricated gel with the molecules aligned all in one direction. In other words is air passe? Could the next generation of speakers come from the people who brought us the waterbed? I've eaten a clove of garlic and I await your response. Just in case I've actually hit on something here: Patents Are Pending! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I don't know, but I've listened to Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young through my Khorns in a room filled with Helium, and they sounded like Alvin & the Chipmunks. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ah, the transmission of sound is indeed faster in a denser medium than air, especially a liquid due to its incompressability. But that ain't going to help you because you are in air. Damn physics! Now what you REALLY want is a pair of water-filled headphones. A bit messy when you take them off, but there is where you REALLY want to go! Forget the little speakers - they suck and there ain't nothing that can be done to fix that... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I think somebody needs a vacation . [ap] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 problem with speakers are most people are pretty satisfied with the home theater in a box. If it is loud, it is good. Unlike golf where you can literally see your mistake as you hook your ball to the right and leads to buying very expensive golf clubs that repeal the laws of physics or very close to... Read any publication with bose advertisements. The advertisements read as if bose made the laws of physics for speakers and they developed every patent ever made (even though they try to patent laws of physics which cannot be patented) but anyways most people listen minus the forum people and audiophiles really have dedicated listening rooms. spend $$$$$ on different amps. For most families, it is buy it once and use it and forget about it. I don't see my friends staying up all night reading audio forums to get the best sound from their speakers. Heck most put placement in which looks good. Try and explain roomnodes to my hall director at college, and he says well the bass is just crazy. His room is three rooms down so around 40 feet away and I happen to have a listening position that puts me in a big node which I cannot hear the bass as well as my hall director in college. The computer and klipsch ifi cables are the limiting factors..... Pressurized speakers wishful but impractical as speakers do in fact leak air and the pressure inside will leak out, also it might damage the cone as it is unequal pressure on the inside. Kinda like pushing the speaker with a finger a big no no that my roommate does not understand.....in which his hand was hastily slapped away. I think Costco now fills their tires with nitrogen, no it does not explode as nitrogen is inert meaning doesn't bond with anything and the atmosphere is 70% nitrogen. The thing is nitrogren molecules are larger than oxygen molecules so it doesn't leak out as quick as normal air. water filler speakers hmm... sorta like the whole idea that digital is better than analog in the multimedia speaker. even though digital has a better signal to noise ratio, the fact is it still is converted back to analog when the amp sends the current to the speakers. just like if the speaker were in a fishtank it still has to be converted back to air pressure to hear anything unless you want to live in the sea [] Also there is a company that defies normal speaker building methods and actually the enclosure resonates to recreate the sound of say a violin. Usual saying goes the enclosure needs to be dead. Bosendorfer is the name VC7 which are 17000 a pair... They are famous for making pianos. Also B&W 800 D series uses diamond compound tweeters hence the D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I do know that Von Schweikert uses aerogel in some of their speaker designs which prompted me to wonder about durability of such a material in such an application. The concept of applying sonic fluidics in speaker design is constrained by the sense.....sound waves hitting ear drums. Yes sound travels through water faster which is grand if you're a whale. Try propogating that sound from the fluid to a gaseous medium that ours ears use and it gets real dicey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggerIsBetter Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Yes, little speakers DO suck, but I have considered using the Platinum Audio trios (5 inch woofers) as "subs" for my Cornwalls. I am NOT joking, my Corns fall off like a brick at 63hz and my Trios are much better down to the high 30s. I also thought it would make a funny pic with those little woofers next to the Corns. My Trios are sitting in a corner unused as I like the Corns so much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Well I think breaking the laws of physics should be punished severely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Same with those who keep breaking the wind. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Yes, little speakers DO suck... Correct! Little speakers do suck. And they also blow, but they don't suck or blow near as much as big speakers do.[] On the other hand, little speakers cost less, take up less space, image better, are easier to optimize in any room (especially small ones), and have a higher WAF. Besides, subs are cheap and plentiful, so a person can have all the advantages of small speakers, PLUS great bass and more than adequate spl's. Don't get me wrong -- big speakers are cool, too. It's just that small ones are so much easier to live with! Especially in a multi-channel rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 I think somebody needs a vacation . [ap] hear Charleston is very nice this time of year. Is your wife a good cook? Is a month to long to stay?[] Sure my ignorance is showing but that's kinda common with me and this here speaker stuff. Also, I certainly agree that not a lot of people are into really-good speakers and placing them properly etc. Its nice to learn that some companies are experimenting with different ways to go about it. Obviously if you could get awesome sound in a small package you'd sell a ton of them and yeah there would be a lot ot technical challenges to overcome in trying something new. I guess I still don't understand it completly though. I thought the primary consideration neccesitating the need for a big box is you reguire a certain volume of internal air to move the drivers and propogate a sound into a room. Shrink the volume of air, or use something denser than air and you shrink the box. Quess I don't understand this properly at all. Oh well, maybe we can get Dr. Scholl's to run us up a pair of gel headphones. Might give you the bends though. One other thing: physics is way overrated. Why my thought processes have never relied on it and I'm getting along ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 thebes, The problem and how it is connected to physics is the interconnection between efficiency and distortion. Someone *could* build a pair of speaker that were small and had flat and smooth response. They could also play with low distortion. However, to get them to play loudly enough to be useful and produce peaks anything like an orchestra can (NOT The Who, they don't count no matter how much I love them) the little cones would have to be driven so hard, with so much travel that they become non-linear* and distort badly. It is easier to get high efficiency with large drivers and large enclosures (Physics voodoo again). That efficiency allows louder reproduction with less cone movement and less non-linearity*, thus less distortion. * the voice coil moves 1/2", for instance, but the cone flexes and moves only, say, 3/8" trying to play a tympani drum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Thank you John, now I understand. It makes perfect sense to me and the clairity of your explanation is much like the clarity coming from my monster Cornwalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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