pauln Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Jeff, how are you ever going to get to the bottom of your questions like this? I think you will more than not form the wrong concept from these answers because they are utilising words that have a precise meaning - watts, amperes, log scale, current, capacitance, impedance, resistance, etc. I don't think you have a backgroung sufficient to really know what these words mean in electronics. What remains are attempts at analogies, but these will fail past the first inference - thereby creating more apparent paradoxes and questions. It took about two weeks for Meagain to realize she is not an electronic engineer, God bless her. You might pick up some ARRL pubs. Radio Shack makes some nice experimentation units that have lots of components and plans for 100s of learning projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Paul, I know what you mean. All these questions, and here's what I learned - which is good. (1) there is such a thing as a 60-watt amp that will deliver plenty of precise slam and that 200 more watts headroom is not all that necessary at all with Klipsch. It might be good for less efficient speakers or speakers that are needed for live concerts such as those performed in concert auditoriums, etc. (2) the difference between the 60-watter that will do that vs. the 60-watters that don't seems to be largely a factor of the power supply and matching capacitance, which incidentally adds lots of physical weight to the amp. So, though I learned a 60-watt amp will do it, this reinforced my impression that all you need to do is lift the amp and see if it's real heavy as compared to the shelf models in department stores. If so, it'll probably give good punch and slam. Something old, something new..... The reason all these questions came up is when Meagain was saying her sound quality could be improved for her newly-acquired KHorns, I suggested she replace the shelf-model HK receiver with a "serious" amp. She responded that the HK had 65 wpc with 85 wpc peaks, and I said it was not enough. Everyone chimed in and said 65 wpc is definitely enough, and we had a big headroom thread over this. As it turns out, 65 wpc is enough with the right power supply - which apparently is the heart of the amp. So, my definition of a "serious" amp has changed. Meagain, I will re-phrase that suggestion I made awhile back. Go get you an amp that is not combined with a pre-amp or a tuner - and make sure it is heavy as hell. [] Then, I think you'll notice a remarkable improvement in the way those Khorns sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Jeff - I would like to see you go buy an new HK receiver and test it. Then you can judge for me. [] Better yet, if you see one of those McIntoshes with the pretty blue lights at a thrift store for cheap - can you hang onto it for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Jeff - I would like to see you go buy an new HK receiver and test it. Then you can judge for me. [] Better yet, if you see one of those McIntoshes with the pretty blue lights at a thrift store for cheap - can you hang onto it for me? I'd definitely hang on to it for you. I bet it'd be heavy, though. Seriously, if you're wanting a decent Mc, there's so, so many of them, I'm sure they're a dime a dozen. You could probably make off with a good deal on the used market. I wish I could listen to one of those HK's. On this "weight factor" thing that has developed (and it's not my theory; all the others here have stated it), what we're saying about those "heavy" amps is when you lift them, it feels like the inside might as well be solid cement. Just out of curiosity, does that HK have that kind of weight to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travisc Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 guys tell him about slew rate and the different front end topographies as well. a a/b mosfet Jeff how much does that microtech weigh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Meagain: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1138937269 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 this may be simplistic, but I turn the amp off and see how long it still plays. The longer the better. Larry That might not hold true for most SS equipment. The speaker protection relays open when the power switch is pressed to prevent huge transients destroying the drivers. Rick Indeed. My McIntosh Mc300 is dead quiet at turn off, but it weighs over 90lbs! DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 guys tell him about slew rate and the different front end topographies as well. a a/b mosfet Jeff how much does that microtech weigh? You kidding? If not, 41 lbs, 1 oz. I guess, given its small size, that's heavier than Quikrete! http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/mtspecs.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 this may be simplistic, but I turn the amp off and see how long it still plays. The longer the better. Larry That might not hold true for most SS equipment. The speaker protection relays open when the power switch is pressed to prevent huge transients destroying the drivers. Rick Indeed. My McIntosh Mc300 is dead quiet at turn off, but it weighs over 90lbs! DM I just looked it up. That's the McIntosh "Big Boy" amp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Meagain's HK AVR 430 comes in at 39 lbs. It's a keeper! And this is what we get thanks to Max's first hint about heavy power supplies. Thanks, Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Dang, Meagain! That's alot of stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 It has pretty blue lights. THAT'S why it's a keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The only thing I really don't like about my 630 is that volume knob,its a little over the top.But I'd have to say the audio quality is better than other(you name em')avrs I've owned.The thing does 2ch really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 [<)] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 The only thing I really don't like about my 630 is that volume knob,its a little over the top.But I'd have to say the audio quality is better than other(you name em')avrs I've owned.The thing does 2ch really well. Hey, Fish. How's that Adcom GFA5500 compare to the HK in the 2-channel sound you get? Would it be a close call, or is there a fair margin between the 2? If there is a margin, give us some detail on what it is and how far apart you think the margin is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The seller tried to demo them for me through a Marantz receiver, which I just "knew" was not going to let the KHorns shine. I knew it because I've seen this lackluster performance of receivers matched w/Klipsch on a number of occasions. When the Marantz did not cut it, I milled around the seller's rooms full of hi-fi and eye-balled a rackable amp (I think Definitive). I lifted it, and it was heavy. It took both hands - unlike the Marantz that you could carry cradled against your hip in one arm. Jeff, Your Marantz Model 1180dc weighed in at 30 lbs and was 90wpc rms. Where as the Marantz 2325 weighs in at 50 lbs and is 125 wpc rms. Just maybe thats why one of these slam and the other doesn't. But i have had and still have amps that slam Aragon, Adcom, HK, Parasound. They all can act as a jackhammer but its the mids and highs that really make or break an amp with klipsch IMHO. The 2325 is as smooth as any ss i've heard and still slam. But then again it has alot of the faults of a receiver with getting conjested and rolled off highs. I think tube monoblocks are really the way to go if you are looking to rock out and have high quality be it old Dynacos or new VRDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hey, Stormin. Be careful not to take all that I say as some categorical representation on my part. I tend to speak that way, but that's often due to a point I'm trying to make. I am sure that somebody out there, and even Marantz, made some killer receivers. The Marantz we listened to that the guy hooked up to my Khorns (the one I criticized) was certainly not your Marantz 2325. It was probably more in line with my Marantz 2230 (30w/channel). And that 1180DC I had years back was a very good one, too. Sure my Crown is better than it by a fair shot. I used to clip that poor 1180DC to death. Back then, I was 18, and my older brother (who sent it to me from Germany when he was in the service overseas) told me it was okay for those red lights to flash alot, just so long as they are not solid. For me at age 18, that meant I was seeing more red than black. [] The 1180DC was certainly in the playing field of my Crown as I clipped it to death, but my Crown just dealt the power and then some with no stress at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I give up[:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 I give up[:|] I love you, man! Look at the bright side, it's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 So, who's got the heaviest amp? With special regards to my friend, Paul. [A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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