Top of KHorn bass bin

[PrestonTom]

Jeff,

You have probably noticed the confusion in the replies. What is being asked is about the cabinet style. On the back, the model number will indicate this.

It will start with something like "KCBR" which translates to Klipschorn, C style, Birch, Raw.

The issue is the "style". If it is "C" then there is single, horizontal piece of wood between the top and bass bins. It is actually the bottom of the top bin (this is the homeplate). If it is the "B" style then there is trio of horizontal pieces. One is the top of the bass bin, the second, recessed piece is the "throat" or collar, and the third is the bottom of the top bin. There will also be a toe kick at the very bottom. As far as the "D" style ("decorators") - I don't know their configuration.

Hopefully this will help sort out why folks are making different suggestions. Incidentally, if you have the "C" cabinets, they can be "converted" to the "B" style with a modest/moderate amount of effort. Some prefer the look of the B cabinets

Good Luck,

-Tom

[meagain]

Basically, when you pull off the top bin what does the underneath of the top bin look like? Home plate or not?

[rplace]

Basically, when you pull off the top bin what does the underneath of the top bin look like? Home plate or not?

NOT, look at my picture above with the home plate (top) missing. The bottom of "MY" HF section just goes back a little farther then the throat under it.

[LarryC]

Basically, when you pull off the top bin what does the underneath of the top bin look like? Home plate or not?

The "underneath" of the top (i.e., if you turned it upside down to look) is actually mostly home-plate shaped, except for the little shortfall that rplace shows. That is the only variation from the 5-sided home plate that sits on top. It does NOT have the trapezoid shape of the top of the bass bin.

It has to be mostly home-plate shaped in order to sit on the top of the side grills all the way back to the wall.

The bottom slab can stop short because it only needs to cover back to the top of the tailboard.

Larry

[rplace]

I don't think it really matters for what Jeff is trying to figure out, but the bottom of the HF section is quite a bit smaller then the very top "home plate" piece or the chopped off home plate of the top of the LF section that Larry pointed out is a trapezoid. Now that I think of it I believe a trapezoid only has 4 sides and all the parts in question here have 5 sides. The all must be some funky pentagon. Let me check...yea http://id.mind.net/~zona/mmts/geometrySection/commonShapes/trapezoid/trapezoid.html

In my picture the bottom side of the HF section ends at the back edge of my crossover (see post above).

Crude drawings below are not quite to scale, but should convey the basic Idea

______
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \ Top of LF section (Bass Bin)
| |
|____________|

____________
/ \
| | Bottom of HF section this sits on the throat of a B style
|____________|

I think we all know what Home Plate (top of HF) looks like Too lazy to draw...let's have a contest...who can draw the best home plat that is klipsch-khorn-like using only the keyboard

[Jeff Matthews]

Okay, sorry for not having a good pic. Thank you for showing some interest in this. Let me describe it this way, and I think it will be clear.

Look at the pic of the left KHorn of mine - as crummy/small as it is. What you will see is the top bin (both the top and bottom of the top bin) has a home plate shape. Mounted under the bottom plate of the top bin (and recessed in a few inches) are three strips of wood that lift the top bin above the bass bin aboout 3/4" to give the "throat" appearance (there's a small 4th piece in back to keep it supported in the back).

Now, look at mine. The bass bin is widest in the front (as is everyone's). At the front right corner for example, the bass bin shoots straight back toward the corner in back (like a triangle). This means that the sides of the top bin overhang the bass bin. The plate that forms the top of the bass bin does not have the "homeplate" shape, meaning the top bin overhangs. So, if you look at my left speaker, you will see that the top bin overhangs the triangular shaped bass bin.

Look at style "U" posted by Larry, above. See how the plate overhangs the bass bin? My "homeplate" shaped top bin overhangs my bass bin in the same manner.

As Tom pointed out, I have a toe kick on the bottom, indicating I have the "B" style. However, as regards the trio of horizontal plates he referred to, mine is not like that. I have a "homeplate" shaped bottom to the top bin. Then, screwed to the bottom of that are 3 strips of wood to support the top bin in front and on both sides (with a 4th smaller piece in back). These are combined to give the "throat" between the bass bin and the top bin. Then, there is NO "homeplate" shaped plate at the top of the bass bin. It is a triangle. That's why the top bin overhangs the bass bin on the sides in the rear.

Does this help? I'd like to know how these were intended to look with grills? I didn't necessarily want to rework these to some other style. I just want to fit grills properly.

[Jeff Matthews]

Crude drawings below are not quite to scale, but should convey the basic Idea

______

/ \

/ \

/ \

/ \ Top of LF section (Bass Bin)

| |

|____________|

____________

/ \

| | Bottom of HF section this sits on the throat of a B style

|____________|

I think we all know what Home Plate (top of HF) looks like Too lazy to draw...let's have a contest...who can draw the best home plat that is klipsch-khorn-like using only the keyboard

Rplace's drawing of the "Top of LF Section (Bass Bin") is not like mine. Mine is a triangle. However, the bottom of the HF section (top bin) is shaped like Rplace's drawing of "Top of LF section (Bass Bin)." That's why when the top bin sits on the Bass Bin's triangle, it overhangs on the sides toward the rear.

[Jeff Matthews]

The Bottom of my Top Bin:

___

/ \

/ \

| |

|_________|

The top of my Bass Bin:

/\

/ \

/ \

/ \

/__________\

[D-MAN]

You have an unfinished bass bin, more or less. The top "wing" portion as shown in the drawing above is a separate piece glued and screwed to the top of your "naked" cabinet.

In the old days the "wings" stuck out 45 degrees, instead of the "modern" swept-back version (as shown in the drawing).

The bottom panel of the top cabinet forms the "wings" for the bass bin - as long as you have a tight seal, it is virtually the same as having a permanently attached top portion on the bass bin, which is the standard production version of the Khorn.

Evidently yours is a type "d" finished by someone else other than the factory. No harm, no foul.

DM

[Jeff Matthews]

I knew you would suggest me adding a new plate. It would be no big deal, except that means I have to go get ply, match the stain, and cover the edges with solid wood strips. I have no ply edges showing. They were all trimmed out nicely.

Did they used to make them like mine, or what?

DM, you edited. So, here's where I'm at. When I put side grills on, if I bring them up to the height of the bass bin, they'll just stop into air - no wood or anything. There will probably even be a little gap where (if looking down between the side grill and the top bin) you could see a little space between the inside of the side grill and underneath the top bin (the void, or chamber). I doubt it would be very noticeable, but is that how these used to come?

Alternatively, if I bring the side grill up to the bottom of the top bin, it would seem to destroy the "throat" appearance by covering up around the sides of the throat.

[D-MAN]

There is no technical reason other than strictly cosmetic concerns to add a top to the bass bin because the top cabinet bottom performs the task of completing the horn quite nicely.

Therefore, it is entirely up to you. If it were me, I'd probably leave it alone.

If you specifically want to turn it into a type-B (with 1" spacer between top and bass bin) would you need to add a top to the bass bin.

DM

[Jeff Matthews]

Leave it alone. Yeah, I'm for that. I just want to know where the grills come up to? Did they used to just stop in mid air at the top? I can do that.

It's just I am getting thrown by the pics that show the side grills being overlayed by that board. Here, I'd have no overlay. It would stop in air, and because of the throat, you'd have 3/4 of an inch to peer down through and into the chamber/void (if you were to look closely). Is this the way they used to do grills?

[Jeff Matthews]

Now that we are on the same page of how mine are constructed (except for the grills), does anyone know what type "A","B","C","D", etc. I have? Some think it's "D". Anybody have a pic of type "D?"

[LarryC]

Does this help? I'd like to know how these were intended to look with grills? I didn't necessarily want to rework these to some other style. I just want to fit grills properly.

This pic shows how the grills fit just behind the front panel and up against the lowest of the three layers of the top hat -- the front panel extends out about a half inch or so in order for the grills to fit flush on the sides.

As you can see, the grills carry the shape of the top hat right on down to the floor.

I agree that the top of the bass bin does not look look like the semi-homeplate shape of the bottom plate of the top hat. Rather, its sides are straight. Each side is probably about a 30 deg. angle from its respective wall. That way, the distance between each side and its wall gradually expands toward the front to form the last stage of the bass horn.

Note that it couldn't be a triangle as seen from the top, because then there wouldn't be any place in back for the bass to come out!

Larry

[Jeff Matthews]

Check your pic out, Larry, and then, check this pic from Klipsch. No top hat. That's mine. I wish I'd have found this earlier.

Now, the top edge of the side grills. That's the big question. We don't have the proper angle, but it would seem to me that you could peep down in between the top edge of the side grill and the "throat" to see inside the chamber where the bass comes out. Is this true?

[Jeff Matthews]

I think we're almost finished, but I also wanted to throw in an oddity. The bottom plate ("homeplate") for the top bin is grilled differently on mine. The front and side edges of the homeplate are covered in grill cloth. I could tell these were re-grilled by someone other than the factory, but I think they must have been grilled that way from the factory, too.

I noticed the ply edges are painted black where grill is supposed to cover them. These would have never been painted black if the intention was not to cover them. Also, the edges are not finished (concealing the ugly ply edge with strips), also meaning these must have been intended to be covered by grills.

Anybody ever seen a model with grill cloth put that way on the top bin?

EDIT: He77! Do I even have Klipschorns? Just kidding. I already checked the serials.

[LarryC]

Now . . . We don't have the proper angle, but it would seem to me that you could peep down in between the top edge of the side grill and the "throat" to see inside the chamber where the bass comes out. Is this true?

OK, a bass bin without any top -- you'd have a somewhat barren top surface and perhaps some little rubber square cushions if they're still there, for the top to sit on. Yes, without any top at all, you could peer down between the grilles and the bass bin, and that's where the bass wave moves on toward the front after turning the final corner from the back of the bin.

HOWEVER -- you need a top, to keep the bass waves confined in that last stage of the horn, until they reach the front where they finally exit the horn. Until then, each side of the horn's last stage is formed by the wall, the bass bin, the floor, and the top. Thus, the waves haven't exited until they clear the side of the speaker -- you can't just let them fly up out of there.

That, BTW, is why the "U" model still had that home plate top you saw -- it wasn't just for the midrange to sit on. So, IMO, you'd need to get or fabricate a home plate to put on top. I hadn't realized you had no top. Silly me for not keeping up with the entire thread.

One more thing: a horn has a "throat" and a "mouth." As you can imagine, the "throat" is where the wave begins, at the driver/diaphragm, and the "mouth" is where the wave exits at the other end. So, the throat is buried deep in the bass bin where you can't see or get to it (unless you take off the bin door and dismount the woofer). The mouth comprises the combination of the big open areas on both sides of the horn at the front.

Larry

[Jeff Matthews]

Yeah, I used the term "throat" too loosely. I am referring to the boards tacked onto the bottom of the top bin to lift it off the bass bin a little and produce a look like there's a neck between the bass bin and the top bin.

Take another look at the most recent pic from Klipsch I posted. They don't have the top plate on the bass bin either. It appears the bottom of the top bin serves as the roof of the chamber to keep the sound in the chamber until it exits the mouth.

But keeping in mind that the "neck" raises the top bin about 3/4" higher than the bass bin, you can see that there would be a 3/4" gap between the top of the side grill and the bottom plate of the top bin - a gap that you could peer down through and see into the chamber.

I guess they were designed that way - at least that's the way Klipsch's pic looks.

[meagain]

Jeff - I don't get it at all. Your bad pic on page 2 of your khorns, don't look like the one you posted on page 3 that you say is the same thing to me. Am I wrong then?

And - If you have serial number tags, are you saying that's all they have is a SN? No model number? I've seen pictures of very old khorn stickers and they all seem to list a model number and if yours are '78? or so - I don't understand?

And - if you have decorators, why is the top grill covered? Shouldn't there be veneer on the top instead?

And - how about some pictures other than the one you posted? You snapped some pics of you tearing down a wall so I know you can do this easy peasy.

[ZAKO]

You have shown a picture of the new 2006 khorn. its similer to but not quite like the style "C.".. Yours seems to be a bastardized combo with a style "B"for the top and a style "C" for the bass bin. What a revolten bastard you got there. Yes a home plate could be made & edge,s veneered. ...To show the 2006 model I will call the "E" style only confuses the problem. Your unit seems to be made from two different styles. You got SCREWED!!!!!!